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Old 12-06-2006, 08:35 PM   #1
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Roof Sagging wall bowing


ok.. I have posted this question in the " construction" in the past... but now that i am ready to get the repairs done (after closing on the house last week), I need some decisive advice.

here is what the structural engineer had to say.

"building is balloon framed..there is considerable bulge in soffit along the right side of the building which is due to framing in the attic...attic floor joists run front to back and roof framing is left to right. result is that triangles formed by roof rafters are solely connected by collar ties..collar ties have been installed near the peak to allow for usable space in attic. rafters are 2x6 and their nsupported length is too long to resist sagging.. a result is that as rafter tails elongate, cause the soffit to belly and upper part of wall studs to bend outward..short of reframing entire roof , we suggest a cheaper alternative...a knee wall be installed netween collar tie and edge of the roof......

there is about 1.5" bowing of the wall in the middle of the right wall of the house. There is some sagging on the other side of the roof as well but not as bad and there is no bowing of the wall on this side partly because there is partial brick wall enclosing the chimmeney.

The roof has 3-4 layers of asphalt shingles and is in good condition. I had two carpenters look at the roof . both suggested jacking up the roof, and putting up knee walls and new collar ties.

is this the right approach? appreciate your comments .

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Old 12-06-2006, 08:39 PM   #2
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Roof Sagging wall bowing


Was the previous owner responsible for replacing the roof or repairing the rafters?

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Old 12-06-2006, 09:08 PM   #3
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Roof Sagging wall bowing


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Was the previous owner responsible for replacing the roof or repairing the rafters?

I got some credit towards repairs at the closing.
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Old 12-06-2006, 09:13 PM   #4
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Roof Sagging wall bowing


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Originally Posted by christy123 View Post



The roof has 3-4 layers of asphalt shingles and is in good condition.
Do you know how old the (top layer) roof is? (5,10,15 ...years)




(If you could supply a photo of the outside of the roof and the attic area where the rafters sag then it would help.)

Last edited by redline; 12-06-2006 at 09:18 PM.
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Old 12-06-2006, 11:22 PM   #5
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Roof Sagging wall bowing


Cant tell how old the roof is ....the previous owner didnt remember (she has dementia)....

Everyone who looked at the roof said that it was in excellent condition. i will take some pictures tomorrow and post them
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Old 12-06-2006, 11:25 PM   #6
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Roof Sagging wall bowing


I was planning to strip down the shingles and replace it one layer ..since so many layers may contribute/complicate the problem...but since everyone says that it is in good condition...I have decided not to replace the shingles at this time...
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Old 12-07-2006, 07:22 AM   #7
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Roof Sagging wall bowing


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I was planning to strip down the shingles and replace it one layer ..since so many layers may contribute/complicate the problem...but since everyone says that it is in good condition...I have decided not to replace the shingles at this time...
Christy,

Once they jack up the ridge and straighten the wall out, your shingles will pop and have to be replaced. I did this exact job 10 years ago and every shingles moved with the ridge being jack up and wall moving back in.
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Old 12-07-2006, 08:23 AM   #8
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Roof Sagging wall bowing


I followed this thread from day one, and was crossing my fingers that you would walk away, unless it was such a steal, you couldn't pass...3 or 4 layers of asphalt shingles? Did your inspector/engineer tell you how much weight you have on that roof? Many areas, and I believe it is in the IRC 2003 that 2 layers is the maximum allowable.....most ignore this, but as joe pointed out, you will replace the roof, whether you know it or not. Have it stipped and blacked in, then level the roof lines and brace...you may be surprised how much the roof line will change when all that weight comes off.
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Old 12-07-2006, 06:08 PM   #9
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Roof Sagging wall bowing


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Originally Posted by christy123 View Post
(she has dementia)....that is unfortunate.

Everyone who looked at the roof said that it was in excellent condition. i will take some pictures tomorrow and post them
If you are able to take photos of the roof and the attic then that would give a better understanding of what is needed.


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Old 12-07-2006, 07:51 PM   #10
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Roof Sagging wall bowing


I posted this post in construction forum when i meant to post it here . Reposting here for the sake of continuity.


Ok...today I met someone who made some sense ...looked like he knew what he was talking about ...he said he was a master capenter and had built several new houses in the neighborhood where I live. Offered references.

He measured with a string and told me that top plate had moved out about 6 inches in the middle. Wall underneath has moved about 2 inches.

He said the ridge of the roof was too small . he said one of the solutions would be to replace the ridge with a structural ridge. He claimed that we wouldnt need the collar ties after that. he will work by hour and even offered to strip and replace the shingles at the hourly rate.

I took some pictures of the attic today. Will post the link in a short while
-------------------------------------------------------------- http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/christ...m?.dir=d13bre2

The roof has two dimensions....half has span of 18' x 2 with collar ties somewhere in the middle of rafters. other half has a span of 14'x2 wit collar ties high up on the rafters.
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Old 12-07-2006, 10:22 PM   #11
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he said he was a master capenter and had built several new houses in the neighborhood where I live. Offered references.
Christy,

What's a Master Carpenter?
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Old 12-07-2006, 10:48 PM   #12
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Roof Sagging wall bowing


Quote:
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Christy,

What's a Master Carpenter?
I have no clue! I dont know if it is a self assumed title or an earned one....but I was impressed!
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Old 12-08-2006, 07:19 PM   #13
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Roof Sagging wall bowing


Hi Christy,

I had a similar problem on the house I'm re-habbing now.
M-bedroom outer wall bowed out 5 inches. Span 20 feet.
Similar baloon framing.

I decided to install 2x6 collar ties at midpoint of the rafters,
attached with three 1/2 inch carriage bolts on each end.

As I jacked up the ridge, I used a come-along to pull the wall
back into plumb and line. Then installed the collar-ties and cut
out the old ceiling chords. My local building dept said the
engineering was acceptable. The result is a beautiful semi-
vaulted 10 foot ceiling. Makes the room look and feel twice as big

You may consider this option of you don't need the upstairs
storage.

Pic:



---------------

A structural ridge would probably solve your problem.
I would recommend a glu-lam beam. The dealer who
sells the beams should be able to engineer the size you
need correctly. This is a major construction project, and
depending on where you live you may want to wait until spring.
Your roof ridge will be open to the elements for a couple of days.
After plumbing up the walls, You will definately need a new
roof almost immediately. As stated earlier, you will have
stress cracks and nail pops everywhere. The roof will no
longer be water-tight.

-----------

Master carpenter is a term I've heard in the Northeast.
When I was in the carpenters union, someone told me
that a master was a man with at least 15 years cumulative
experience in several carpentry disciplines.

Don't know if it's true...but it sounded reasonable to me

Anyway, Best of Luck with your project.

Bob
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Old 12-08-2006, 09:20 PM   #14
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Roof Sagging wall bowing


Thanks for your ideas. I will pass this on to whoever I decide to go with...

Can I ask you how you managed to pu that pic in the post....
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Old 12-08-2006, 09:56 PM   #15
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Roof Sagging wall bowing


Did you have sag in the roof and the rafters. Did you replace rafters as well?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbob View Post
Hi Christy,

I had a similar problem on the house I'm re-habbing now.
M-bedroom outer wall bowed out 5 inches. Span 20 feet.
Similar baloon framing.

I decided to install 2x6 collar ties at midpoint of the rafters,
attached with three 1/2 inch carriage bolts on each end.

As I jacked up the ridge, I used a come-along to pull the wall
back into plumb and line. Then installed the collar-ties and cut
out the old ceiling chords. My local building dept said the
engineering was acceptable. The result is a beautiful semi-
vaulted 10 foot ceiling. Makes the room look and feel twice as big

You may consider this option of you don't need the upstairs
storage.

Pic:



---------------

A structural ridge would probably solve your problem.
I would recommend a glu-lam beam. The dealer who
sells the beams should be able to engineer the size you
need correctly. This is a major construction project, and
depending on where you live you may want to wait until spring.
Your roof ridge will be open to the elements for a couple of days.
After plumbing up the walls, You will definately need a new
roof almost immediately. As stated earlier, you will have
stress cracks and nail pops everywhere. The roof will no
longer be water-tight.

-----------

Master carpenter is a term I've heard in the Northeast.
When I was in the carpenters union, someone told me
that a master was a man with at least 15 years cumulative
experience in several carpentry disciplines.

Don't know if it's true...but it sounded reasonable to me

Anyway, Best of Luck with your project.

Bob

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