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Old 04-08-2011, 02:52 PM   #31
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Replacing a sliding glass door question


For the subfloor there is some rot right at the door. I have not removed the old door yet so I don't how bad it is under the door itself. My plan was to remove the door and replace the subfloor and whatever is under teh door that is not structurally sound.

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Old 04-10-2011, 07:14 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by COLDIRON View Post
" Keep em coming all you contractor's I love it " Like all your details are perfect.
Nope..... just pointing out that one.

I have no doubt you have seen countless installs without nailing flanges.
He already has a door with a nailing flange.

We're just trying to help with a proper method of installation which is NOT cutting off a factory installed flange.

I've attended seminars on Graces' preferred method of door and window installations.
So here's how this "detailed " contractor would do it.

Remove the siding
Remove the door
Repair the subfloor (something was obviuosly wrong with the first installation)

Cut back the building paper 3-1/2" all around the opening.
This is the step I learned from the Grace reps.
By cutting back the paper, you are able to stick the Vycor directly to the sheathing.
They said the old way of cutting an X in the paper and wrapping the opening was now not acceptable practice.
Probably why OP has to repair the subfloor......

Prep the opening with Grace or Vycor 9" wrap.
This means wrapping the sill and 16" up each jamb.

Install the door with the nailing fin.
Install Vycor over the building paper, stick it to the exposed sheathing and over the nailing fin.

On the header, you pull back the building paper, install Vycor over the flange and directly to the sheathing.
Now flap the building paper over the Vycor .

You now have a positive water shed.

Now install J channel and siding
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Old 04-10-2011, 12:28 PM   #33
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Replacing a sliding glass door question


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Originally Posted by tcleve4911 View Post
Nope..... just pointing out that one.

I have no doubt you have seen countless installs without nailing flanges.
He already has a door with a nailing flange.

We're just trying to help with a proper method of installation which is NOT cutting off a factory installed flange.

I've attended seminars on Graces' preferred method of door and window installations.
So here's how this "detailed " contractor would do it.

Remove the siding
Remove the door
Repair the subfloor (something was obviuosly wrong with the first installation)

Cut back the building paper 3-1/2" all around the opening.
This is the step I learned from the Grace reps.
By cutting back the paper, you are able to stick the Vycor directly to the sheathing.
They said the old way of cutting an X in the paper and wrapping the opening was now not acceptable practice.
Probably why OP has to repair the subfloor......

Prep the opening with Grace or Vycor 9" wrap.
This means wrapping the sill and 16" up each jamb.

Install the door with the nailing fin.
Install Vycor over the building paper, stick it to the exposed sheathing and over the nailing fin.

On the header, you pull back the building paper, install Vycor over the flange and directly to the sheathing.
Now flap the building paper over the Vycor .

You now have a positive water shed.

Now install J channel and siding
"FYI The detail was the only thing you could pick on with the picture, what's funny about that is the siding was already there by the builder so I didn't even touch it. Nice replacement door HUH!!!!!!!!!" About $350 with the Veteran's discount".
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Old 04-10-2011, 02:21 PM   #34
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Replacing a sliding glass door question


There is a way to install that flanged door without removing the siding.
It will take some skill and a steady hand,but I've used it many times with
great results.
Once you have established where the door will line up in the opening,mark
the siding,top and sides, for a cut that will accept a desired casing width.
Slide something behind the siding to keep it away from the wall about 1/2"
or more,and cut out with a diamond blade in a small grinder.You may need to
do a little hand snipping in some spots.
Now you have easy access to install the door with the nailing flange intact.
After sealing around the flange,your ready to trim the door with new casing.
Make sure you use a wide enough piece of the tape-sealer to extend behind
siding a couple of inches.
PVC trim would work well here,just tack the J-channel to the side of it.and
slide it onto the edge of the siding.
Or:
You could run a piece of white flashing over the tape,and behind the siding
and finish with the PVC trim,routed out to form a flange that would extend
over the top of the siding,forming kind of a two piece J.
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Old 04-10-2011, 02:35 PM   #35
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Replacing a sliding glass door question


That’s a lot of work just to avoid removing a few minutes worth of vinyl siding.

I suppose on the plus side you don’t have to deal with the rot you can’t see.
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Old 04-10-2011, 03:10 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwikfishron View Post
Thatís a lot of work just to avoid removing a few minutes worth of vinyl siding.

I suppose on the plus side you donít have to deal with the rot you canít see.
Just throwing it out there as an option Ron,no need to throw in your digs.

Anyways:
It depends on the site details.I've found that sometimes the profile of the
new door may be narrower than the old one and the siding would be too short
anyways.
Once siding is removed,its also necessary to replace the house wrap so
all the old nail holes aren't inlets for any condensation or water intrusion.
(think like a rain drop)
Removing the siding can be more of a PITA because of the staggered joints,
keeping all the pieces in order to reinstall the same,dealing with shutters,
light fixtures,or anything else attached to it.The possibility of cracking
older irreplaceable siding would be another reason to leave it on.
It could actually be a lot faster.

Quote:
I suppose on the plus side you donít have to deal with the rot you canít see


Kind of expected that remark,since your such a lover of vinyl!
You are just assuming this scenario to justify your opinion,and
since the OP's concern was with the new door installation,that is
all I'm addressing here.
If he had concerns regarding any possible siding leaks,I'd have
offered an approach to address that issue.
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Old 04-10-2011, 03:28 PM   #37
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Replacing a sliding glass door question


Quote:
Originally Posted by cdm View Post
Thank you all to your comments. I am going to attempt to do it the right way this weekend. I will take photos and post as I go along. I found a pretty handy siding removal tool, I am going to remove or at least loosen all of the siding around my door and remove all of the old J chanel, pop out the old door, and then flash the bottom and half of the sides, install the new door, use Tyvek tape on top of the new nail flange and then re-side.
Being cdm probably has never replaced a sliding door before, keeping the flange intact is the correct way to go. This is DIY. If someone reads about cutting the flange off but then gets in over their head, they cannot take that door back.
If the new replacement door is not the exact size as the old one, removing siding or not is a moot point.
3/8 or 1/2" narrower or wider means a gap or the siding is too long. He may have to adjust the framing depending how tight/loose the original RO was.
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Old 04-10-2011, 03:51 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldfrt View Post
Just throwing it out there as an option Ron,no need to throw in your digs.

Anyways:
It depends on the site details.I've found that sometimes the profile of the
new door may be narrower than the old one and the siding would be too short
anyways.
Once siding is removed,its also necessary to replace the house wrap so
all the old nail holes aren't inlets for any condensation or water intrusion.
(think like a rain drop)
Removing the siding can be more of a PITA because of the staggered joints,
keeping all the pieces in order to reinstall the same,dealing with shutters,
light fixtures,or anything else attached to it.The possibility of cracking
older irreplaceable siding would be another reason to leave it on.
It could actually be a lot faster.



Kind of expected that remark,since your such a lover of vinyl!
You are just assuming this scenario to justify your opinion,and
since the OP's concern was with the new door installation,that is
all I'm addressing here.
If he had concerns regarding any possible siding leaks,I'd have
offered an approach to address that issue.
Well I guess I just couldnít help the digs.

Iím just one who feels itís just flat wrong to install a slider as if it was a replacement window going into an existing frame, because it isnít.

I feel the same way about the guys that run a saw around the aluminum frame, pop out the window, cut the vinyl flanges off throw in a few screws, a tube of calk and be done with it.

The only one that benefits from those kind of installs are the installers.

As far as the PITA stuff I donít quite get, thatís just the job. It only took me one good gust of wind blowing my organized pile of vinyl all over to figure out the value of a Sharpie.

I have no problem with vinyl per say if installed properly. My problem is with the manufactures and their products I pitched as the best thing around just to see that product discontinued after a few years. Now I have to tell my customer that wants that little addition I canít get that stuff no more. Now thatís a PITA.
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Old 04-10-2011, 04:58 PM   #39
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Replacing a sliding glass door question


Thanks for everyones advice. I have attached a few photos of the before and after. After we got the old door out, we discovered that the original door did not have a nail flange which is fine. What is not fine is the builder used NO flashing and NO caulk for the frame. Can you believe that, the screws on the bottom of the frame were able to be pulled out by hand. So needless to say I had extensive decay. let me just add we have been in the house for 1 year so it wasn't me being lazy. The house was built in 1997, also as an FYI.

So taking everyone advice I removed or loosened all of the siding around the old door. If you are going to do this yourslef, do yourself a favor and get a siding removal tool, the big box stores sell them for about $6, they are worth every penny. After we got the door out we ripped the subfloor out, ripped the insulation, cut the floor joists just enought to sister another 2x10 PT in. On the corners we then cut another piece of 2x10 to fit between the joist to secure them as well. After that we re-insulated, put the subfloor back on and now was time to re-install the new door. Luckily the door frame was pretty square so we didn't have to do to much shimming. We also added rubber membrane flashing on the top and bottom of the door and loaded the door frame up with silcone caulk. After we got the door in I taped around the nail flange to get it secure. When we were intially removing the siding I damaged one of the pieces of the J-channel. Luckily the door we replaced was white so I just got some white J chanel and re-installed. For under the door, originally there was a tiny piece of siding that looked crappy, we replaced it with a product called Tuff board, its a composite white board and is suppose to be rot and mildew free. After we got all of the siding and J chanel back up we calked the seam where the j-chanel fits against the sliding glass door. Overall never having installed a sliding glass door it took about 14 hours, it would have been alot less if we didn't have so much decay. I hoped this was helpful to someone. Thanks to everyone for your suggestions, I saved myself $900 from having someone else install it and I know the job was done correctly.
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Replacing a sliding glass door question-dsc00343.jpg   Replacing a sliding glass door question-dsc00338.jpg   Replacing a sliding glass door question-dsc00341.jpg   Replacing a sliding glass door question-dsc00350.jpg   Replacing a sliding glass door question-dsc00362.jpg  

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Old 04-10-2011, 05:01 PM   #40
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Replacing a sliding glass door question


sorry, and yes I did have to adjust the framing a little bit, the original opening was slightly to large for my door. So I ripped down a 1x6x8 PT board and attached. I checked many times that the walls were square and level. I now just have to finish off the inside.
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Old 04-10-2011, 05:04 PM   #41
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Replacing a sliding glass door question


One last question. While i was removing the siding I noticed my house has NO tyvek. Its just vinyl on top of shealthing. I assume back in 1997 it wasn't code? The sheathing looked fine but I wasn't happy seeing no vapor barrier what so ever. Since this whole project was spawned from re-doing my kitchen the siding will have to be another year.
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Old 04-10-2011, 10:00 PM   #42
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One last question. While i was removing the siding I noticed my house has NO tyvek. Its just vinyl on top of shealthing. I assume back in 1997 it wasn't code? The sheathing looked fine but I wasn't happy seeing no vapor barrier what so ever. Since this whole project was spawned from re-doing my kitchen the siding will have to be another year.
There should have been something behind the siding. Old school would have had 15 lb felt paper. Real old school, 30 lb paper.
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Old 04-11-2011, 12:00 AM   #43
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Replacing a sliding glass door question


Sorry I wasn't following this thread sooner. I would have said to cut a section of deck board out (a rip) under the added trim piece for water drainage off the glazing. And foam board the rim joist with air sealing. At least you can caulk the trim piece if you didn't use any sticky wrap or a metal pan flashing under/behind it.
Anytime pictures are added for understanding, this is great. When I see something wrong in a picture, I will speak up... at least others may learn from it. This is one of the results one can expect on a forum with professionals present, it just jumps out at you!






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Old 04-11-2011, 08:28 AM   #44
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Ron

There was absolutely nothing behind the siding. I was amazed.


Also I did use the sticky membrane and I had wrapped it well past the trim board and 18" up on each side. Also around the door opening I didn't have any tyvek but used some roofing paper for a little added protection.
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Old 04-11-2011, 08:55 AM   #45
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Replacing a sliding glass door question


Glad you got into the guts of this project and addressed as many issues as you could.

Make sure you get a can of GreatStuff for Doors & Windows and foam around the rough opening gap.

Beautiful job
Well Done...........

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