Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Carpentry

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 09-12-2009, 12:10 AM   #1
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 195
Rewards Points: 150
Default

Removing diagonal on framing


I am putting a sub-panel in my garage. There is a 1x4 diagonal in the stud space I want to use, such that the panel will not sit deep enough to mount properly. To avoid the diagonal I would either have to mount the panel very low, very high, 5ft futher away, or mount it non-flush. What code section talks about these diagonal members?

If I cut out that section, I'd be restoring at least some of the structural integrity by attaching the metal panel to both studs.

tns1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2009, 01:17 PM   #2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 9,968
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Removing diagonal on framing


What is the exterior siding material? Any blackboard, foil-board or plywood as sheating?
Is the garage wall attached to the house?
Be safe, Gary

Gary in WA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2009, 01:43 PM   #3
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Canada (s/w ON.)
Posts: 2,294
Rewards Points: 1,000
Default

Removing diagonal on framing


I would consider cutting the diagonal 1X4 out in the area where the panel is to be placed.
Then I would install two, 2X4 diagonals above and below the panel.
Wildie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2009, 01:48 PM   #4
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 195
Rewards Points: 150
Default

Removing diagonal on framing


Found it in Section 2308.9.3 Bracing:
1. Nominal I-inch by 4-inch (25 mm by 102 mm) continuous diagonal braces let into top and bottom plates and intervening studs, placed at an angle not more than 60 degrees (1.0 rad) or less than 45 degrees..

If I assume this bracing is necessary, what is a suitable replacement?
The section discusses alternatives, mainly various types of sheathing. Any sheathing added to the inside of the wall would need a big opening for the panel which kinda defeats the purpose. The other side is exterior siding which I'm not going to touch. A u-shaped steel bracket 1/4" or less thick would fit fine, if I could get one.

How is bracing handled where the entire stud space is taken up by a duct or panel?
tns1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2009, 01:53 PM   #5
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 195
Rewards Points: 150
Default

Removing diagonal on framing


Quote:
Originally Posted by GBR in WA View Post
What is the exterior siding material? Any blackboard, foil-board or plywood as sheating?
Is the garage wall attached to the house?
Be safe, Gary
Garage is attached, siding is not sheeting, but 8" horiz boards angled out at the bottom. Not sure what that is called.
tns1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2009, 01:54 PM   #6
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 195
Rewards Points: 150
Default

Removing diagonal on framing


Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildie View Post
I would consider cutting the diagonal 1X4 out in the area where the panel is to be placed.
Then I would install two, 2X4 diagonals above and below the panel.
I could do that, but this is a panel, so I'd be drilling large holes in those diagonals to pass wires and conduits.
tns1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2009, 03:03 PM   #7
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 9,968
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Removing diagonal on framing


You will be fine not replacing it as the garage top plates tie into the house's top plates with a second floor or a roof above for the shear flow. I cannot see a problem unless you are in a high wind area. Install ply fillers if needed next to the box, securing the box on both sides for shear transfer every 4". If still worried, install a Simpson diagonal brace on the inside of garage wall close to the other: http://www.strongtie.com/products/co...c-twb-rcwb.asp
Be safe, Gary
Gary in WA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2009, 03:22 PM   #8
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,794
Rewards Points: 1,000
Default

Removing diagonal on framing


It's a subpanel in a garage - what is wrong with mounting it high? And maybe one stud bay over to maybe bring it somewhat lower?

to keep the location, I would probably cut out the 1x4 wind brace and mount a sheet or two of plywood to replace the shear capability.
vsheetz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2009, 04:19 PM   #9
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Canada (s/w ON.)
Posts: 2,294
Rewards Points: 1,000
Default

Removing diagonal on framing


Quote:
Originally Posted by tns1 View Post
I could do that, but this is a panel, so I'd be drilling large holes in those diagonals to pass wires and conduits.
How shall i say this? The 2X4 bracing would installed 'vertically' so wiring could run in front of, or behind.
The bracing would not be run in the same plane as the wall studs.
Wildie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2009, 09:54 PM   #10
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 195
Rewards Points: 150
Default

Removing diagonal on framing


I cut the brace and put the box where I wanted it to be. Attached it to each stud with several large screws. I'll probably add some horiz bracing as I go.

On to the next problem:
I have to connect some large service wires between the two boxes, and they would normally be in a metallic, pvc or flex type conduit. I'd end up boring a large hole thru the same 3 studs that support the boxes (and my roof). It might need to be 2" conduit which leaves only 0.5" or so on each side. I didn't realize the wires and conduit would end up so large.

If I can, I'd rather use a few smaller dia conduit sections, or get an exemption to not use conduit, but thats for the city to tell me.

I can't be the first one to have this problem. How big of a hole can you drill thru a stud and still be OK?
I can't easily add extra studs since I have other conduit coming up thru the sill plate. Are there metal brackets or something I could use?
tns1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2009, 11:21 PM   #11
newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: LosAngeles
Posts: 10
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Removing diagonal on framing


Years have gone by and the same principle applies. This sounds like a let in brace design to aide in the plumb and line process during the framing stage. It is not necessary. Is the exterior stucco, siding etc. these all give some shear value and are typical framing specs...
elkwd7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2009, 04:14 PM   #12
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 195
Rewards Points: 150
Default

Removing diagonal on framing


In the case where you have to bore a large hole or series of holes thru a 2x4 stud, is there a standard practice to add strength back to that stud like adding a metal bracket of some type?
tns1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2009, 07:15 PM   #13
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 9,968
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Removing diagonal on framing


Yep: http://www.strongtie.com/products/connectors/HSS-SS.asp
Your local box store may have a different brand, same principle.
Be safe, Gary
__________________
If any ads are present in my answer above, I do not condone/support/use the product or services listed, they are there against my permission.
Gary in WA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2009, 01:10 PM   #14
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 195
Rewards Points: 150
Default

Removing diagonal on framing


Exactly what I was hoping to find. Thanks!
tns1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2009, 04:53 PM   #15
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,631
Rewards Points: 1,082
Default

Removing diagonal on framing


I must be risk averse (or maybe lazy) but I would have mounted the box and run the conduit on the wall surface rather than cutting all that framing - it's a garage right?.

Yes, in theory the box will perform the same function as the brace but now how many studs are you going to cut nearly through in between these two boxes? The simpson hardware information does say that they are Not a complete replacement for the removed material. If you've got one stud to cut through that's one thing but if you've got a bunch of wall studs to cut through I'd be reluctant to start cutting.

There are ways to minimize the visual impact of surface mounted conduit that might work if you don't like the looks of the conduit in the garage (shelves/cabinets/soffits).

jogr is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Double Framing on old Garage? bofusmosby Building & Construction 6 04-12-2010 09:08 PM
Framing for drywall under Spiral staircase clemon03 Drywall & Plaster 6 07-17-2009 03:49 PM
Diagonal Hardwood Install Advice JDeFuria Flooring 7 06-29-2009 03:35 PM
Framing Gun - Nail Shank Diameter Questions... MoparAutoworks Building & Construction 5 07-03-2006 09:27 PM
Framing a 16 foot high wall for shop pranderson Building & Construction 10 01-01-2006 04:23 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.