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Old 01-03-2012, 11:18 AM   #16
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Question: 3/4 Scotia trim on stairway skirt. Glue, nail, both?


Here's where I am at with my repair.

By the way, my personal feeling is that 1 jpg is worth 1000 txt's. If the forum would rather I post my pix elsewhere and reference them by link, I would be glad to do do that. Please let me know.

I am posting (if it will let me) 6 pix. 1. Is a "stud map" of the rake wall in question. The next 4 (in order) are where the stringer meets the rake wall displaying detailing the stringer/spacer gaps. The last one is the middle stringer.

Now that it is exposed, as far as fastening the stringer to the wall goes, I was thinking of getting some 4" 1/4" or 5/16" lag bolts with washers and lagging the stringer to each of the exposed studs (or the cap on the rake wall). Or I have a box of 4" Deck-Mate screws I could use as well. I would use the recommend PL premium above as well. I was also going to space out/shim the existing gaps accordingly so as not to "stress" the infrastructure when snugging it up.

With regard to the middle stringer, It appears that I have enough room for a 2x4 between the cutouts and the back edge of the stringer. I was going to PL and screw a 2x4 on to this for added stiffening. Finding a 10 foot steel plate locally is going to be difficult for me. I have a great hardwood place close by, given my limited dimensions, is there a better wood than a 2x4 to use for this purpose? I don't want to remove the rest of the sheet rock unless necessary, so I don't have access to the other side of the stringer.

Thoughts? Comments? Suggestions?

Thanks again for all the help.
Attached Thumbnails
Question: 3/4 Scotia trim on stairway skirt. Glue, nail, both?-stud-map.jpg   Question: 3/4 Scotia trim on stairway skirt. Glue, nail, both?-stud1.jpg   Question: 3/4 Scotia trim on stairway skirt. Glue, nail, both?-stud-2.jpg   Question: 3/4 Scotia trim on stairway skirt. Glue, nail, both?-stud-3.jpg   Question: 3/4 Scotia trim on stairway skirt. Glue, nail, both?-stud-4.jpg  

Question: 3/4 Scotia trim on stairway skirt. Glue, nail, both?-middle-stringer.jpg  

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Old 01-03-2012, 08:43 PM   #17
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Question: 3/4 Scotia trim on stairway skirt. Glue, nail, both?


It looks like you pretty well have a plan, as for the gaps I would just put some glue on both sides of shims and install them in the gaps and cut off flush with the bottom of the stringers. Once you have the stringers lagged or screwed you can check to see if there is any bounce before doing anything to the center stringer, you may be OK without doing anything to it. If it were mine I would add a header half way of the stairs if there were any bounce.
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Old 01-03-2012, 09:22 PM   #18
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Question: 3/4 Scotia trim on stairway skirt. Glue, nail, both?


Look at the riser to tread connections. If the riser is not screwed into the back of the tread every 6 to 8 inches get some Kreg screws and do so. When attached in this manner the riser will add some support.
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Old 01-03-2012, 09:40 PM   #19
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Question: 3/4 Scotia trim on stairway skirt. Glue, nail, both?


Jim, Thanks for the suggestion. I like the wait and see approach. Even as it is now (I have taken no action other than removing the sheetrock), when someone walks on the steps, I can't *see* any deflection. But if I rest my fingernail against the stringer and a nearby stud, I can *feel* the movement of the stringer relative to the stud ever so slightly. I think your idea will be fine. Left stringer: Glue it up, and lag /screw it to the studs and rake let it dry and then do the "fingernail test". Also while I have the center stringer exposed, I will glue and screw a 2x4 to it as a stiffener. After that's all done, I can test and go further if necessary.

When you said you would " install a header 1/2 way up". What did you mean. I probably won't do it but I curious as to how you mean to do it.

Oh by the way I saw your album. Spectacular work. Nice teardrop too. I'm a big fan of teardrops, and travel trailers/RVs in general.

Keith, Thank you also for your help and advice. FYI, the risers are not screwed or nailed to the back of the treads. They are rabbeted and glued to the treads. The risers and treads are glued and nailed to the stringers. Do you still think adding nails to the back would be of value? It's easy enough for me to do with the left side open.

Thanks again, both of you have been invaluable in assisting me. I'll report back with my progress.

Paul.../NH
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Old 01-03-2012, 11:12 PM   #20
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Question: 3/4 Scotia trim on stairway skirt. Glue, nail, both?


Paul the way you are going I don't think you will need a header. The way I was talking about was nailing and glueing two 2X8s together with a solid piece of 3/4 inch plywood sandwiched between them. Place the header across so all three stringers rests on them mid way up the stairs. Make the header long enough that it can be nailed to the inside (3 1/2" way) of the studs on each side. Nail another cripple under the header against the stud to support the header down to solid support.

Thanks for the compliment on the little teardrop, it was a lot of fun to build and fun to camp in.

I just wanted to say this about Keith, I have been doing stairs for many years and there are very few types of stairs I haven't built, but Keith is one of the best stair men I have ever seen. He and another of our members, Millertyme, are artisans with stairs. I don't know if Keith or Millertyme have an album but they should.
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Old 01-03-2012, 11:33 PM   #21
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Question: 3/4 Scotia trim on stairway skirt. Glue, nail, both?


Jim,

Now I see where you were going with the header. It would be tough for me to do anyway because of headroom. Going down the cellar stairs, is already kind of a head banger for my 6' wife. An exposed header would be hard to pull off for her.

I think I'll be fine with just the fastening I plan on doing.

I was pondering last night, why the gaps between the stringer and the studs are larger at the top of the stairs than the bottom. At the top the rake wall is floor to ceiling, so I would think the width of the stairway opening would be fairly "solid" and not widen. The lower end of the rake wall has much less lateral stability, and I would think the if I had any gaps at all they would be at the bottom. But the reverse is true. All I can think of is that it was just poor quality construction to begin with, and being a spec house, the sub just didn't care how it came out. he didn't have to live with it.

I had looked for Keith's album... Nothing. I just looked at Miller Tyme. Same.

Thanks again Jim I'll let you guys know how I make out.

This is a GREAT place. I am very glad I found it.
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Old 01-06-2012, 09:27 AM   #22
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Question: 3/4 Scotia trim on stairway skirt. Glue, nail, both?


My apologies in advance for beating a dead horse....

Update:
I've shimmed, glued and lag bolted the stringer to the rake wall with 4.5" 5/16" lags. I also added a 4" deck mate screw under each bolt. That stringer no longer moves/deflects when someone uses the stairs. It is rock solid.

I WISH I could say the same for the skirt on the other side of that rake wall. The skirt still deflects (ever so slightly) when someone walks up the stairs. Like before, you can't see it, but putting a finger between the skirt and the wall, you can feel it slightly. I am not sure if this will squeak (my original issue) when I glue and nail the long piece of scotia onto the skirt or not.

As I mentioned earlier, there is about 6" of "overhang" from the stringer to the skirt. See pix. I really can't believe that a 6" overhang of an oak tread and maple riser is deflecting this much.

Next week I plan on adding a 2x4 stiffener to the middle stringer, while I have it open.

New discovery:
I pulled the insulation down and revealed (part of) the issue. The skirt board is attached through the sheetrock to the cap of the rake wall. In the 3 wall voids I have access to, there are 5 nails from the skirt board that did not make it into the cap or studs. Simply resting through sheetrock. All of them in the area of deflection (middle of the run).

Question:
Should I sink a few more nails in the skirt and know for SURE that I hit solid meat under it? Or does the skirt need to "float" because of the initial crappy design and build of the stairwells/walls?

Thanks again.
Attached Thumbnails
Question: 3/4 Scotia trim on stairway skirt. Glue, nail, both?-bolted-stringer.jpg   Question: 3/4 Scotia trim on stairway skirt. Glue, nail, both?-step-detail.jpg   Question: 3/4 Scotia trim on stairway skirt. Glue, nail, both?-step-detail3.jpg  
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Old 01-06-2012, 01:19 PM   #23
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Question: 3/4 Scotia trim on stairway skirt. Glue, nail, both?


Paul, go ahead and nail the skirt solid into the framework, When you nail the scotia, just nail into the skirt, just incase. I don't see how anything could be moving now but it must be or maybe it is just a vibration instead of movement.
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Old 01-06-2012, 01:23 PM   #24
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Question: 3/4 Scotia trim on stairway skirt. Glue, nail, both?


Thanks Jim,

Just the reassurance I was looking for.

I'm heading out of town for the weekend, but I'm going to get to the skirt when I get back.

Thanks.

Paul.../NH
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Old 01-06-2012, 05:37 PM   #25
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Question: 3/4 Scotia trim on stairway skirt. Glue, nail, both?


Seems that you didn't "Const Adhesive" every tread and riser down.
Can you get to the back of the whole stair system and run beads where they meet stringers?
I have always found that a squeek is wood rubbing on a nail.
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Old 08-17-2012, 11:27 AM   #26
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Question: 3/4 Scotia trim on stairway skirt. Glue, nail, both?


I was just lurking back in here and realized I never brought closure to my stairway issue.

The gluing and bolting of the stringers to the rake wall and adding a stiffener to the middle stringer did the trick. Not only are the squeaks gone, but there is a noticable improvement in the feel of the stairway. It never really "felt" spongy, but now with it securely fastened, it is rock solid.

My thanks to all the helped and took the time to reply.

Paul.../NH

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