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-   -   pocket hole jointery and cabinet screws for framing (http://www.diychatroom.com/f14/pocket-hole-jointery-cabinet-screws-framing-99049/)

newbymodeler 03-21-2011 02:07 AM

pocket hole jointery and cabinet screws for framing
 
Hi everyone, I have mixed experience since I could walk basically with building things. I am about 2 years into the remodel of a house about 100 years old, maybe more.

I have become addicted to using my kreg jig for just about everything or only screws for that matter. I have been jacking up and refurbishing or "beefing up", you could say, the framing on my house and garage for a while now and have convinced myself that pan head cabinet screws or large multipurpose screws are more than enough for the framing and more than enough for the strength.

I can't seem to find joist hangers for those old school 2-by joists that were actually 2-by's, not ever-so shrunk like today's lumber. So pocket holes would be the next best thing in my opinion considering they were nailed to cross joists before.

So far I've seen amazing results with the pocket hole jointery and while it does take longer, it's not as slow as one would think I believe and my work is much more precise then nailing I believe. I always use a ratchet driver and square head screws as well.

To get an idea of the strength of these, I pocket hole jointed 2-14 ft. microlam beams together end to end, and with the screws only being 2 1/2 in. long, and only being 8 of them in a 9 in. microlam, they held it together tight enough to be holding one from afar and the other attached would stay stiff and snug and not shear off.

That's when I was the most impressed with this setup for framing. So, guess I am wondering if there is anything I don't know about framing that I should and also suggesting that other diy give the pocket hole jointery and square drive screws a try if they haven't experienced working with any carpentry or woodworking with these tools and fasteners. I'm not suggesting framing with them until I hear more on this topic, but so far, so good. Thanks.

oh'mike 03-21-2011 07:01 AM

You are scaring me here------Get joist hangers under the joists---nails and screws are not intended to hold up joists---dangerous practice there,.

WirelessG 03-21-2011 12:27 PM

I think you are taking pocket hole screws way too far. They are meant for joining 1x's and that sort of thing....cabinet work, not framing. Your experiment on laminated beams could only be described as the work of a mad man. If you continue with your experiments you will likely end up seriously hurting or killing someone.

SDC 03-21-2011 12:44 PM

These joist hangers are to be used with Rough Lumber (2"wide by x"height)
http://www.strongtie.com/products/co..._rough-spf.asp

pyper 03-21-2011 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newbymodeler (Post 613676)
So I guess I am wondering if there is anything I don't know about framing that I should?

It seems like there is, yes. Read a book like Wood Structural Design Data. Or even just an introductory book on framing. You can't form a reliable connection using nails/screws and wood the way you are trying. It is as much to do with the wood as the fasteners.

The old-time alternative to joist hangers are ledger boards.

fulton 22175 03-21-2011 09:21 PM

use the proper fasteners foe the proper project , otherwise failure , bad things could happen , nails are for framing , screws are for holding stuff together , the integerty of nails is STRONGER then screws , iam sure some will disagree with me on that one

epson 03-21-2011 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WirelessG (Post 613947)
If you continue with your experiments you will likely end up seriously hurting or killing someone.

That’s why we wear hard hats on job sites…

<*(((>< 03-21-2011 09:53 PM

:eek:

Ron6519 03-22-2011 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newbymodeler (Post 613676)
Hi everyone, I have mixed experience since I could walk basically with building things. I am about 2 years into the remodel of a house about 100 years old, maybe more.

I have become addicted to using my kreg jig for just about everything or only screws for that matter. I have been jacking up and refurbishing or "beefing up", you could say, the framing on my house and garage for a while now and have convinced myself that pan head cabinet screws or large multipurpose screws are more than enough for the framing and more than enough for the strength.

I can't seem to find joist hangers for those old school 2-by joists that were actually 2-by's, not ever-so shrunk like today's lumber. So pocket holes would be the next best thing in my opinion considering they were nailed to cross joists before.

So far I've seen amazing results with the pocket hole jointery and while it does take longer, it's not as slow as one would think I believe and my work is much more precise then nailing I believe. I always use a ratchet driver and square head screws as well.

To get an idea of the strength of these, I pocket hole jointed 2-14 ft. microlam beams together end to end, and with the screws only being 2 1/2 in. long, and only being 8 of them in a 9 in. microlam, they held it together tight enough to be holding one from afar and the other attached would stay stiff and snug and not shear off.

That's when I was the most impressed with this setup for framing. So, guess I am wondering if there is anything I don't know about framing that I should and also suggesting that other diy give the pocket hole jointery and square drive screws a try if they haven't experienced working with any carpentry or woodworking with these tools and fasteners. I'm not suggesting framing with them until I hear more on this topic, but so far, so good. Thanks.

That's one of the problems of addiction, poor judgement.
Before you kill someone, and then sue Kreg, get a handle on traditional framing and the correct fasteners used and repair this.
Ron

BigJim 03-22-2011 08:25 AM

Screws are good for holding things tight but have poor shear strength. If you wish to use screws in framing, I would recommend using nails and reinforcing with screws.

pyper 03-22-2011 11:18 AM

[quote]Screws are good for holding things tight but have poor shear strength.

[/quote]

These people didn't get the message:

http://www.strongtie.com/products/co...ews.asp#tables

desiree_furman 04-01-2011 04:51 AM

Thank you for giving us an idea in hole pocket jointery and cabinets screw framing. It is so important to know the different usage of tools. and where you can use it.

BigJim 04-01-2011 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pyper (Post 614559)
[quote]Screws are good for holding things tight but have poor shear strength.

These people didn't get the message:

http://www.strongtie.com/products/co...ews.asp#tables[/quote]

That is just too much to read for me, let me ask you a question, which will bend and which will break, nail vs pocket hole screws? If the screws were made out of the same material as the nails I could see that but they aren't. Pocket hole screws are just not made for framing.

Ron6519 04-01-2011 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by desiree_furman (Post 621144)
Thank you for giving us an idea in hole pocket jointery and cabinets screw framing. It is so important to know the different usage of tools. and where you can use it.

And where you shouldn't. And the brains to know the difference.
Ron

fulton 22175 04-01-2011 03:33 PM

wow this thread is starting to scare me , proper tools for the proper job cabinet screws are just for that cabinets , if your going to do framing simply use nails


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