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Old 11-15-2010, 08:45 PM   #16
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Options to attach wall frame to slab?


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Oh and I always put down 1" rigid foam and plywood over the slab then build my walls off that.
What if I did the walls, then came back at a later date and put rigid foam and plywood on the floor? I know it is a bit backward, but I can't really see any drawback to doing it unless there were some serious moisture issues, enough to build up water around the rigid foam (under and around the base plates).

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Old 11-15-2010, 08:47 PM   #17
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Options to attach wall frame to slab?


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love the old school thinking but you can do as you please I will as I please.
It's not old school thinking at all. It's 2010 and you still can attach pt to concrete with no problems.

Stop making false statements like this
Quote:
be sure you use sill seal under the PT base plate so it doesnt touch the concrete. Concrete should never touch wood PT
and maybe you will sound like you know what you're talking about instead of sounding like you just started carpentry yesterday..
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Old 11-16-2010, 12:48 AM   #18
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Options to attach wall frame to slab?


A sill sealer forms an air stop so the basement air can't go under the plate to allow air degrading the cavity insulation and causing air movement,
pp 5: http://www.aecb.net/PDFs/Impact_of_thermal_bypass.pdf

The drywall should be air sealed as well: http://www.buildingscience.com/docum...wall-approach/

The sill sealer also is a thermal break between plate and colder concrete. Why heat up the bottom plate and have a thermal sponge of concrete (touching earth on other side) steal it away: http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=...BiEiG1lHFDd9yA

It also is a capillary break there to stop the p.t. from getting wet through the concrete: http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/...-building-code

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Old 11-16-2010, 08:50 AM   #19
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Options to attach wall frame to slab?


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It's not old school thinking at all. It's 2010 and you still can attach pt to concrete with no problems.

Stop making false statements like this and maybe you will sound like you know what you're talking about instead of sounding like you just started carpentry yesterday..
I am not making false statement I am stating opinions and how I do things.

And and thanks for the info Gary.
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Old 11-16-2010, 04:07 PM   #20
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Options to attach wall frame to slab?


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I am not making false statement I am stating opinions and how I do things.

Yes, you are. Telling someone that concrete should never touch pt is a false statement and is wrong. Your opinion is always right in your eyes. What you are stating is wrong. Pt is made to sit on top of concrete and you will obviously have no problems with it since it's done every day and has always lasted for many many years. You have just learned something new.
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Old 11-16-2010, 04:39 PM   #21
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Yes, you are. Telling someone that concrete should never touch pt is a false statement and is wrong. Your opinion is always right in your eyes. What you are stating is wrong. Pt is made to sit on top of concrete and you will obviously have no problems with it since it's done every day and has always lasted for many many years. You have just learned something new.
I am not going to argue with you. I will do it my way and you do it yours.
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Old 11-16-2010, 04:46 PM   #22
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I am not going to argue with you. I will do it my way and you do it yours.
There's no argument. You do what you think is right and I will do what is right.
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Old 11-16-2010, 05:38 PM   #23
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Options to attach wall frame to slab?


To the poster. Do it whatever way you see fit (with our without a seal) and it will work. As for shooting it down to the slab, if you arent comfortable with that just tapcon it down.

Good luck and the reason for the 1" foam on the floor and 2" on the walls is a thermal and moisture break. I like to do it that way, I think it really helps with heating, cooling and moisture levels in a basement. Also, i spray foam the cavities between the joists at the sill plates down onto the foundation to help with this as well.

As for putting the walls up then the foam and plywood, it would work too. You shouldnt put plywood directly on the slab (although types like advantech are water resistant).


Just so you know people put down flooring right on top of concrete slabs all the time and are fine but be aware if you have higher than average moisture levels in the slab, it can cause warping or de-lamination from the surface. If you are thinking wood floor, engineered wood is much more stable than standard wood flooring. Laminate flooring is a great product but is not moisture friendly either so be sure to have a moisture barrier.

Good luck!
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Old 11-16-2010, 06:39 PM   #24
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Sill seal on interior walls?

Sounds like a waste of time and money to me but if it makes you feel better, have at it.

There’s no need for it and I’ve never seen it done.
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Old 11-16-2010, 09:30 PM   #25
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Options to attach wall frame to slab?


We are talking about interior stud walls against concrete walls, correct? As all the points of my post #18 pertained to..... Did anyone look them up? Here's a few using it.....

“These details are shown in Figure 1. Closed cell sill seal should be installed between the bottom plate of the wall and the concrete floor.” http://www.buildingscience.com/docum...g-your-basment
“Manage the moisture in an old house

Existing foundation walls (and basement floors) are sometimes wet, usually damp, and seldom dry. Rarely do they have perimeter drainage systems, capillary breaks between masonry and wood (or soil) or insulation.” http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/...ramed-wall-2x4
“If there is never moisture leakage on the wall to be insulated, then you can also set the bottom plate on a bead of caulking compound or gasketing material to create a tight seal.” http://oee.nrcan.gc.ca/residential/p...ent.cfm?attr=4




Anyway, if you don't understand the need for the reasons previously stated, fine.

SECTION R317 PROTECTION OF WOOD AND WOOD BASED PRODUCTS AGAINST DECAY
R317.1 Location required. Protection of wood and wood based products from decay shall be provided in the following locations by the use of naturally durable wood or wood that is preservative-treated in accordance with AWPA U1 for the species, product, preservative and end use. Preservatives shall be listed in Section 4 of AWPA U1.
1. Wood joists or the bottom of a wood structural floor when closer than 18 inches (457 mm) or wood girders when closer than 12 inches (305 mm) to the exposed ground in crawl spaces or unexcavated area located within the periphery of the building foundation.
2. All wood framing members that rest on concrete or masonry exterior foundation walls and are less than 8 inches (203 mm) from the exposed ground.
3. Sills and sleepers on a concrete or masonry slab that is in direct contact with the ground unless separated from such slab by an impervious moisture barrier.
From 2009: http://publicecodes.citation.com/ico...9_3_sec017.htm


Anyone notice a difference from previous code wording here, where I bold it?


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Old 11-17-2010, 05:55 AM   #26
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SECTION R317 PROTECTION OF WOOD AND WOOD BASED PRODUCTS AGAINST DECAY
R317.1 Location required. Protection of wood and wood based products from decay shall be provided in the following locations by the use of naturally durable wood or wood that is preservative-treated in accordance with AWPA U1 for the species, product, preservative and end use. Preservatives shall be listed in Section 4 of AWPA U1.

3. Sills and sleepers on a concrete or masonry slab that is in direct contact with the ground unless separated from such slab by an impervious moisture barrier. Gary[/quote]

The way Iím reading it is. Either separate the wood from the concrete ďorĒ use treated wood.
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Old 11-17-2010, 06:07 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by GBR in WA View Post
We are talking about interior stud walls against concrete walls, correct?
Gary
I didn't think so.

Post #1
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Originally Posted by Engloid View Post
Anyway, what options do I have for attaching that horizontal piece to the slab? Tapcons?
Post #2
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Originally Posted by wnabcptrNH View Post
be sure you use sill seal under the PT base plate so it doesnt touch the concrete. Concrete should never touch wood PT or no PT.
And the fun begins.
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Last edited by kwikfishron; 11-17-2010 at 06:18 AM.
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Old 11-17-2010, 07:05 AM   #28
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Options to attach wall frame to slab?


Seriously guys let this go. I am so god damn sick of the "lets prove the other guy wrong" attitude on this forum.

Yes my first post stated concrete should never touch wood but guess what I also stated later that was my opinion and that is how I like to do it.

how about we all drop it and move on.
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Old 11-17-2010, 07:51 AM   #29
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Seriously guys let this go. I am so 'EDIT' damn sick of the "lets prove the other guy wrong" attitude on this forum.
I donít see this happening here.

There are many Pros on this site that just simply what to make sure that the DIYís receive correct information. Sometimes in these conversations people get offended and thatís a shame.

Although not the case in this thread in some cases the wrong information can be costly or dangerous.
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Old 11-17-2010, 08:20 AM   #30
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I donít see this happening here.

There are many Pros on this site that just simply what to make sure that the DIYís receive correct information. Sometimes in these conversations people get offended and thatís a shame.

Although not the case in this thread in some cases the wrong information can be costly or dangerous.
Alright well I agree with you on that.

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