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Old 11-14-2010, 03:20 PM   #1
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Options to attach wall frame to slab?


I am going to be finishing a basement soon. Actually, it's finished now, but just has firring strips and paneling...no insulation. I will be putting in a 2x4 frame with insulation and sheetrock.

With this being a basement, I plan to use a pressure treated horizontal 2x4 on the bottom, and then standard untreated for the verticals.

Anyway, what options do I have for attaching that horizontal piece to the slab? Tapcons?

I don't do this for a living so one of the 22cal nail gun things isn't really the best idea for me. I'd rather drill and run in tapcons....IF that's the best other option.

thanks!

oh...also, in my area, R13 is reccomended (and code) for basement insulation. Is there any preference in Jons Manfield or Owens Corning? Should I use a plastic sheet or anything for a vapor barrier? If so, should it be on the block side of the 2x4's?

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Old 11-14-2010, 03:31 PM   #2
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Options to attach wall frame to slab?


What are you going to be putting on the floor? Typically the best idea is to put 2" rigid foam insulation on the concrete walls and tape the joints. Then put 1" rigid on the floor with plywood over that. If dont want to put the plywood and insulation on the floor then be sure you use sill seal under the PT base plate so it doesnt touch the concrete. Concrete should never touch wood PT or no PT.

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Old 11-14-2010, 03:45 PM   #3
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Options to attach wall frame to slab?


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What are you going to be putting on the floor?
Right now, it is carpet, and I will probably leave it. I think it currently just has the foam pad and carpet on the slab. This house previously had some big problems and one of the professional draining and moisture companies put a sump in, so I'm not aware of any moisture coming up from the floor, but there may be some.


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Typically the best idea is to put 2" rigid foam insulation on the concrete walls and tape the joints.
Nothing but the 2" rigid on the walls, and just sheetrock over that?

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Then put 1" rigid on the floor with plywood over that. If dont want to put the plywood and insulation on the floor then be sure you use sill seal under the PT base plate so it doesnt touch the concrete. Concrete should never touch wood PT or no PT.
I really want to avoid insulating the floor if possible, but it may be worth it...depending on the additonal cost. It may really help me keep it warmer down there in the winter. If I understand right though, PT is the board that lies horizontally on the floor? What type of still seal should I use that is effectife but still not expensive? I guess it would eleminate the need to use pressure treated wood.

How about the method to attach? Are Tapcons the typical method of doing it?
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Old 11-14-2010, 06:36 PM   #4
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Options to attach wall frame to slab?


you can rent the .22 cement nailers at most rental places.. just FYI.
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Old 11-14-2010, 07:36 PM   #5
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you can rent the .22 cement nailers at most rental places.. just FYI.
Yeah, if I remember right, Home depot wanted something like $45 for the first 4hrs and $70 for the day, or something crazy like that. I figure I can drill holes and put in tapcons in an hour...and save a lot of money. Those rentals are sometimes rediculously priced. I did rent a concrete saw a while back and it was reasonably priced, as opposed to what you'd get with a sledgehammer.
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Old 11-14-2010, 08:23 PM   #6
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Options to attach wall frame to slab?


$45 for the first 4 hours!?! Thats crazy! You can buy a ramset 22cal for about $20 at home depot, then the primers and nails would bring the cost to about $50. How do I know this, because I just purchased one a few weeks back. Most tool rentals are a waste of money unless it is a high priced piece of machinery.

Oh and you will still want to use pressure treated 2x4 for your bottom plate with the sill sealer underneath. The sill sealer is not expensive they sell it over near the concrete supplies at home depot it is just 4"x 1/4" foam, nothing special.
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Old 11-14-2010, 08:30 PM   #7
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$45 for the first 4 hours!?! Thats crazy! You can buy a ramset 22cal for about $20 at home depot, then the primers and nails would bring the cost to about $50. How do I know this, because I just purchased one a few weeks back. Most tool rentals are a waste of money unless it is a high priced piece of machinery.
$80 bucks --->> http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1...atalogId=10053

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Oh and you will still want to use pressure treated 2x4 for your bottom plate with the sill sealer underneath. The sill sealer is not expensive they sell it over near the concrete supplies at home depot it is just 4"x 1/4" foam, nothing special.
Ok. Thanks!!

In talking with a friend of mine, he's reccomending that I focus on the one wall that is exposed and not underground (basement rancher). He says that the other walls don't need anything but firring strips and sheetrock. However, the one exposed wall would be best if I put some sort of veneer fake rock or brick stuff on the outside.

Any thoughts on that?
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Old 11-14-2010, 08:35 PM   #8
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I did find this thing just now: http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1...3#BVRRWidgetID

With the cost of Tapcons, buying the 22 rounds and the nails might not be much more. To do this job, I will wind up with only about 100 studs. Do you think I'd wind up cheaper to go with Tapcons? The time won't be that much, and as for the tool...I may never use it again.
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Old 11-14-2010, 08:40 PM   #9
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be sure you use sill seal under the PT base plate so it doesnt touch the concrete. Concrete should never touch wood PT or no PT.
Since when?
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Old 11-14-2010, 09:11 PM   #10
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Since when?
When you frame a house you put sill seal under the PT plate on top of the foundation right?

Why would this be any different? Last I checked PT wood is still wood and it can rot over time so just do yourself the favor and put down the seal.

Oh and to the poster just get Sill Seal. Its a roll of foam that you can put under bottom plate. Oh and dont bother with the ramset IMO. If you have a hammer drill and bits just use tapcons, especialy if you are only putting a few down.

Oh and MINIMUM code states any wood that touches concrete has to be treated but thats still minimum code. Most guys I deal with on a regular basis prefer to not have concrete touch wood.
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Old 11-14-2010, 09:35 PM   #11
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Options to attach wall frame to slab?


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When you frame a house you put sill seal under the PT plate on top of the foundation right?
Yes, always because it's used to reduce air infiltration between the concrete foundation and sill plate. You don't need it on the basement slab. I have never used it or seen it used in 27 years of framing. Also, many older houses that I work on that I ripped out basement walls were framed with doug fir plates with no problems at all. It is code now to use pt for bottom plates. I've never heard of anyone using suill seal in a basement. You simple do not need too.

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Why would this be any different?
Read above.

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Last I checked PT wood is still wood and it can rot over time so just do yourself the favor and put down the seal.
Don't have to do myself any favors becasue I have never used it in a basement and never will use it because there's no need at all. It's simply a waste of time and money.

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Most guys I deal with on a regular basis prefer to not have concrete touch wood.
Good for them using something they don't need. Sounds like they don't know what they are talking about. PT wood can touch concrete plain and simple.
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Old 11-14-2010, 10:13 PM   #12
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Options to attach wall frame to slab?


I will probably put something between the wood and slab, just to be sure....mainly because it is a basement and there WERE some problems in the basement with water before I bought the house. I'm currently using a dehumidifier, and it will pull about 2.5gallons of water a day out of the air, during some times of the year. Lowes sells 50 ft of sill seal for $5, so it's not going to take much extra money to do it.

If it weren't for the dampness and prior problems, I'd probably just go with pressure treated, but since this stuff is cheap and available, I'll probably use it.



Do you all have any other thoughts on insulating the area? Outside on the one wall and then R13 inside 2x4's for the other three walls?

I'm just afraid that doing something on the outside of the one wall will cost me a ton of money...more than if I just put insulation on the inside.
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Old 11-15-2010, 06:56 PM   #13
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Yes, always because it's used to reduce air infiltration between the concrete foundation and sill plate. You don't need it on the basement slab. I have never used it or seen it used in 27 years of framing. Also, many older houses that I work on that I ripped out basement walls were framed with doug fir plates with no problems at all. It is code now to use pt for bottom plates. I've never heard of anyone using suill seal in a basement. You simple do not need too.



Read above.



Don't have to do myself any favors becasue I have never used it in a basement and never will use it because there's no need at all. It's simply a waste of time and money.



Good for them using something they don't need. Sounds like they don't know what they are talking about. PT wood can touch concrete plain and simple.


love the old school thinking but you can do as you please I will as I please.
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Old 11-15-2010, 07:25 PM   #14
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Options to attach wall frame to slab?


Engloid, I'm with Joe on this one---I've framed a lot of basements---always used PT wood gunned to the slab--No sill sealer needed--I can't see why you would need an air infiltration barrier under a basement wall.--Mike---
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Old 11-15-2010, 07:34 PM   #15
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Options to attach wall frame to slab?


Oh and I always put down 1" rigid foam and plywood over the slab then build my walls off that.

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