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julieangell · 09-18-2008, 12:38 AM

Hello,

I am currently building a house (well, I'm having one built by a contractor who is clueless on this) and am having an issue with base shoe. We had prefinished solid oak floors put in and my contractor decided that we should put the base down first so that as few people as possible would be on the floor after it was down. He assumed we would want base shoe and that would cover any space between the floor and base. Problem is, we aren't crazy about the base shoe at all, especially how it has to be mitered where it meets the plinth blocks at our doorways. I know that may be a common thing to do, but it is driving us crazy when we hold the shoe up to the base and see how far it sticks out, especially where it sticks out past the plinth.

My question is, does anyone know of a molding that we could use that is smaller than 1/2 inch in depth? We actually need it to be 1/4 inch in order to not stick out past the plinth. The guy who is making the shoe that we thought we were getting says he cant make it any smaller and swears that we can't rip it down after we get it because it will break. Any thoughts at all on this would be greatly appreciated. Or any ideas on where we might get a shoe or quarter round that is itsy-bitsy.

Thanks in advance. Sorry if I'm annoying, I'm desperate.

Julie

buletbob · 09-18-2008, 07:17 AM

The Base moulding should be installed over the finished floor, this will cover any gaps that will be seen from the floor to the wall. second the base shoe came about when house's where balloon framed. when the floor would shrink it would leave a gap between the floor and the base ( nailed to the wall) then the shoe would be installed and nailed to the FLOOR, this way when the floor shrank it would move up and down against the wall base, hiding any gaps.
as for the shoe base where it meets the plinth blocks what we have done for over three generations is to cut it back on a 45 away from the door. If you go into any one of these older homes you will see that it is done the same way.
and also with the way homes are framed today you are not committed to using the shoe, I personally like the extra detail of the base. Good luck BOB.

**AtlanticWBConst.** · 09-18-2008, 07:58 AM

Do you need to have base shoe installed? I could see if this were an older home with vastly irregular floors and older floor framing.

As far as a substitute molding, or altering the shoe base for the depth...I'd say that you are SOS.

Pretty much as buletbob stated, when required to install base shoe that projects beyond a molding section, such as casing or a plinth block, we do a mitered return, or a 45 bevel cut.

There is not much else that can be done. The above method is standard installation practice, when dealing with two material thicknesses, as mentioned.

Honestly, you are criticizing a method, that is standard building practice, even in high-end custom homes. You are also getting involved, and demanding for things that are not standard building practice, and don't seem to be possible to do.

**AtlanticWBConst.** · 09-18-2008, 08:06 AM

Standard installation practice of shoe base when projecting beyond a molding edge.
See the Video in this link. Step 4 in video:

http://www.easy2diy.com/cm/easy/diy_...ge_id=35751016

**thekctermite** · 09-18-2008, 08:46 AM

I agree 100%. You're trying to re-invent the wheel here. You certainly have the right to do that, because it is your house. However, if I were your builder we would be hitting the contract with a change order and there would be additional charges for installation of a custom moulding or no moulding at all. Not having base shoe changes the entire trim and floor finishing process.

Jay123 · 09-18-2008, 11:11 AM

http://forums.jlconline.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=44528

I keep getting a feeling of deja vu....

Maintenance 6 · 09-18-2008, 01:03 PM

hmmmmmm......... me too!!

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=5830

Sems like the consensus is the the builder should have installed the flooring first. Wonder what made him decide otherwise?

Jay123 · 09-18-2008, 03:33 PM

I'll see you on that one and raise you a http://www.contractortalk.com/showthread.php?t=44983

J

There's another I saw on another site but the link won't post. Julie's getting around.

**thekctermite** · 09-18-2008, 05:40 PM

Its a base shoe dragnet.

Big Bob · 09-18-2008, 05:47 PM

Ms. Julie,

Yes, perfection is all in the details. It is certainly regrettable that this minutia was not discussed with your contractor earlier.

Forgive me, if you are this picky on this common detail I can understand why your contractor wanted to limit activity on your finished floor by installing the base before the floor.

Many other good contractors might have done this also.

Most new construction crews do not have the finesse and gentile touch of seasoned remodeling teams or very high end custom builders.

Base install after floor involves: the trim carpenter (they love to set up shop...saws...dust etc.. in the room they work in or close by) the paint crew... probably did not paint the base before install so.. min of two coats and caulk to the wall... touch -up the wall etc... cover the floor with tarps and runners ... blue footies on the work boots... and all the possible fun of tools being dropped or the paint work bucket getting kicked and tipped over on your new floor.

The contractor saved you 6 months to a year of ware and tare on the newly installed prefinished flooring.

In the many good posts above..you have been provided with very good remedies to your perceived problem. I suggest you work with your contractor and ask him to show you a sample of some of the solutions described above.

I wish you and your contractor good luck. I'm sure the contractor is looking forward to your punch list.

julieangell · 09-18-2008, 06:42 PM

Thank you all for your replies. I am sorry if I seem somehow deceptive in that I posted this same story in other forums. I am trying very hard to take care of this on my own and am getting no help from my contractor at all. Some of you act like I'm cheating on you by posting in other forums, its crazy really. It's not like I used a different name and posted a different story. Its the same story and its just me, trying to get as many opinions as possible from as many smarter and more qualified people than myself. Also, I want to say that this is my first home and I have no idea what I am doing and am learning things I never thought I would. It was never brought to my attention why the base was even going down first when it was going down. I just assumed it was common practice. It wasn't until the base shoe was sitting in my living room and the floor began to go down that I realized there was more to this "baseboard" stuff that I thought. My contractor agrees that he should have talked with me about the fact that I would need a shoe but says that he actually thought that he had his guys holding the base the exact distance from the floor that would be needed to not have one. So its not like I'm one of these ditsy chicks who just changes her mind all the time. LIke I thought I wanted it then decided I didn't. It didn't happen that way. I realize that there is a right way to do this from this point and I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel here. Just thought that by going to professionals and asking for creative thinking in order to possible have a plan B or another option would be a good idea. Honestly, I've never seen a touchier group of guys!

Thanks so much to everyone who replied with ideas and information for me. Thats more than I could ask for and I appreciate it so much.

Julie

Jay123 · 09-18-2008, 07:16 PM

I don't think anyone thought you were "cheating" jules, it was just somewhat funny to see the post at the numerous contractor forums that I read every day...don't take it too personal, you've been treated pretty well considering a lot of things I've seen on the net (you too, I'm sure).

Hell, I probably need to ask you about some contractor forums I'm not even aware of, I'll bet you found some that I haven't....all in all, pretty good detective work.

J

buletbob · 09-18-2008, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtlanticWBConst.

Standard installation practice of shoe base when projecting beyond a molding edge.
See the Video in this link. Step 4 in video:

http://www.easy2diy.com/cm/easy/diy_...ge_id=35751016

Now that was cool !. well put.

Maintenance 6 · 09-19-2008, 11:40 AM

I speak only for myself here, but my impression is that when I see some-one post the same question in a number of different forums, they are not necessarily looking for an answer. Rather they are seeking that one person out there who agrees with thier point of view. They will then somehow feel vindicated in that they are not standing all alone. Hopefully that is not the case here and I apologize if you feel that anyone here is overly touchy. My intent is not to start a flame war. Practically all of the posters here are very good at what they do and try to post good solid advice based on thier years of experience. You may have to forgive us if we feel that we've been mistrusted by some-one who's gone elsewhere for their advice.

As far as the original problem, have you investigated changing to a different profile molding instead of base shoe? Maybe a cove molding would look more like it belonged. Especially if the ends were cut on something other than a miter.

Jay123 · 09-19-2008, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maintenance 6

I speak only for myself here, but my impression is that when I see some-one post the same question in a number of different forums, they are not necessarily looking for an answer. Rather they are seeking that one person out there who agrees with thier point of view. They will then somehow feel vindicated in that they are not standing all alone. Hopefully that is not the case here and I apologize if you feel that anyone here is overly touchy. My intent is not to start a flame war. Practically all of the posters here are very good at what they do and try to post good solid advice based on thier years of experience. You may have to forgive us if we feel that we've been mistrusted by some-one who's gone elsewhere for their advice.

As far as the original problem, have you investigated changing to a different profile molding instead of base shoe? Maybe a cove molding would look more like it belonged. Especially if the ends were cut on something other than a miter.

I usually get the same impression...and did so this time as well...sorry jules, just the way it comes across...I have no problem with being wrong as hell either, happens all the time.

J