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Old 07-02-2008, 11:29 PM   #1
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Is it legal.....


Im doing a complete remodel on a house. its completly gutted. In one of the bathrooms i want to build a tile shower on the exterior wall, but the window would be in the shower. Is there any problem with this, code wise?

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Old 07-03-2008, 06:04 AM   #2
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Is it legal.....


No, there is no code problem with this. However, there are concerns about the construction/design of such - in order to avoid water damage due to poor drainage, or improper materials.

Previous discussion here: Shower Stall w/wall & window

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Old 07-03-2008, 07:13 AM   #3
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Don't know where you are located, but in some areas of the country, putting your plumbing on exterior walls is a concern, but most don't do that anyway, so...

Otherwise the window isn't a problem but does present water damage concerns. How are you going to ensure water doesn't get in down the wall? and what are your waterproofing plans for the walls, floor, drain etc? I ask because now is the perfect time to make sure you're not redoing this shower in 5 years because you overlooked critical water damage issues; showers nowadays when done correctly should last 40 years.
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Old 07-03-2008, 07:37 AM   #4
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The window in the shower is a bad idea due to water, but it isn't a code violation. Any glazing in a wall shower or tub must be tempered glass if any portion of the glazing is located within 60" of the lowest spot of the shower's floor (drain hole).

From an enforcement standpoint, if you install a new window in an old shower, bring it up to code. If you leave an old window in place and build a new shower, you'd have to bring the window up to code. The way I see it, either way you have to temper that window.
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Old 07-03-2008, 07:37 AM   #5
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By the way, I'm citing the International Res. Code.
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Old 07-03-2008, 11:26 AM   #6
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Is it legal.....


yes, it will be a new window. Im not positive how my father in law plans on doing it. He has much more experience in this department than me. But if i had to take a stab in the dark id say slightly slope the bottom sill to discourage water build up. Wrap the whole thing in tar paper, inside and out. Install the vinyl window like normal. Wrap the window frame in cement board. Tile around the window, and then caulk the window on the inside to the tile


but like i said, i have never done this and don't know the proper way. Any help would be appreciated. In fact, are there any good threads on the tile shower in general?
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Old 07-03-2008, 11:46 AM   #7
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I can't discourage you from doing this enough.

If you can frame in the gap in the wall and skip the window altogether, I would suggest it. It is a bad idea, and no matter how you do it, it will eventually degrade. Tile is not waterproof by any means, nor is cement board.

There are ways of doing this, but no installation your father in law comes up with will be as good as not doing it at all.

There are some good tile shower threads here, or on the John Bridge tile forum.
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Old 07-03-2008, 12:45 PM   #8
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You're close to the correct install of a replacement window in a showerstall...and since I don't know where you live I cannot comment on the type or position of vapour barriers or insulation you may or may not install. But that's just one concern in making a waterproof shower starting from scratch. People have windows in their showers and will continue to want them but how well they perform there depends a lot on your work to waterproof it and the walls, in fact anywhere where the water falls.

But lets assume you have an opening in the wall already; you shop for a quality window that I assume will be placed about 5' off the floor and is about 36-40" wide. Vinyl is a choice, double-pane, low-e or privacy glass all are options you have when you place an order for one. Someone more qualified than me will tell you what you need to install the window to make a continuous vapour barrier in your home. But once installed, then you will get to work by first reading up on the best methods of waterproofing walls and floor and then going out and purchasing the materials. Read John Bridge's forum on Kerdi showers, use that system if you like (that's what we do), follow the guidelines carefully and if you do, you'll have a waterproof shower with a window.

Then relax. Waterproofing a shower is now a must unless you like doing this every 5 years, but once you've done it the right way, it'll outlive you maybe. There are clear guideline out there to help you seal the joints around the window, over the CBU (Cement backer board) and under the tiles. Tiles are fairly water-resistant porcelain tiles having an absorbency rate of 0.1% or something, so they don't absorb water. Grout does but the issue is not if it absorbs the water, it's where that water goes once absorbed. If it runs down the wall, into the drain, then you don't have a problem. You would however, if the water stayed there for any length of time. Hence, waterproof membranes.

Most of the time. showerwalls are made of gyproc (gypsum board), then waterproofed then tiled - I kid you not. CBU is not needed, but preferred by some, for tiling. If done that way, and following the manufacturers guidelines, the manufacturer will even warrantee the installation.
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Old 07-03-2008, 01:31 PM   #9
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so your saying i should use cement backer board? I've heard of using regular green sheetrock, using waterproof paint, and then just tiling over it. But that just sounds like trouble to me. As far as how long this will last. This is a house that will eventually be flipped. So if it did leak in 5-10 years, it wouldn't effect me. But i would still like to do it right the first time
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Old 07-03-2008, 01:51 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccarlisle View Post
Most of the time. showerwalls are made of gyproc (gypsum board), then waterproofed then tiled - I kid you not. CBU is not needed, but preferred by some, for tiling.
Sorry, that isn't accurate most of the time. The International code even prohibits the use of gypsum board in wet locations such as tubs and showers, and it doesn't matter if it is mold/mildew resistant. If someone builds a shower or tub wall using greenboard or another sheetrock, they're asking for trouble, even if the inspector doesn't catch it. CBU (and waterproofing) is the industry standard, and now there are some other products such as DensGard (I think that's the name) that are acceptable replacements.
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Old 07-03-2008, 02:05 PM   #11
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I'm sorry - I should have been more specific. Most waterproof showers we do are done in gyproc...but we use the Kerdi system.

Indeed, I would be surprised if anyone made waterproof showers in gyproc alone, gyproc covered in a liquid membrane, or greenboard alone, or covered, or even cbu alone - because none of them are waterproof. Water-resistant maybe - but not waterproof. But the Kerdi system is; it stands to reason that a waterproof membrane can be placed over pretty much anything because by definition it is waterproof. The advantage of the Kerdi system (apart from being waterproof), is that once placed with unmodified thinset, the membrane can then be tiled over usually within a period of a few hours and is therefore a time-saver.

I'll address the code issue at a later date...
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Old 07-03-2008, 02:38 PM   #12
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Is it legal.....


As mentioned above this time LOUD AND CLEAR

PER CODE & GOOD COMMON SENCE THE GLASS MUST BE "TEMPERED"

WHY ? showers are a great place for a person to slip. As a person falls the reaction is to catch yourself ( in a tight space ... reach for the wall quickly)... if that window is not tempered... well ...going to be a lot of blood... FL BC tempered glass in window within 3 ft of tub or shower.

if you don't use tempered glass now.... the new buyers home inspector will catch it and you will get to do it later or blow the sale... wonder what else they didn't do to code or good practice of the trade.

think about installing glass block in the window rough opening.

Last edited by Big Bob; 07-03-2008 at 02:40 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old 07-03-2008, 05:07 PM   #13
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Is it legal.....


So whats this kerdi method. I searched around for it, and all i can find are people saying "im using the kerdi method" And to be clear. You guys are saying i need sheetrock with cement backer over the top of that?
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Old 07-03-2008, 05:14 PM   #14
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ah, i think ive figured it out. I looked of kerdi on google images, and it looked like an orange membrane thinset onto the walls and joints, looks like winner to me
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Old 07-03-2008, 05:15 PM   #15
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Is it legal.....


Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy21 View Post
So whats this kerdi method. I searched around for it, and all i can find are people saying "im using the kerdi method" And to be clear. You guys are saying i need sheetrock with cement backer over the top of that?

No, there is no sheetrock, only the cement board.

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