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Nick DIY 12-03-2010 01:12 PM

Knape & Vogt Pilasters for TV Shelf?
 
1 Attachment(s)
Hello, I'm new to the forum and I'm hoping you can help me make a decision here:

I'm doing a multi-room renovation in which I added a closet with alcoves on both sides. I'd like to install adjustable shelving in these alcoves. I've attached a sketchup photo for clarity.

I'm considering the Knape & Vogt 255 Pilaster Standards and 256 Supports. I know these should work fine for most of this shelving. The standards will all be surface mounted on drywall with 2 x 3 stud backers.

My question is, will 4 of these, stationed in the corners of a 30" x 30" shelf be strong enough to support a 27" picture tube TV that weighs close to 50 or so pounds?

Also, the shelving will probably be made with melamine coated particle board from Home Depot. I assume that for this load, the TV shelf will need to be reinforced - any suggestions?

mrgins 12-03-2010 01:38 PM

Don't use particle board for the TV shelf. Use laminated 1x or 5/4. I've even gone as far as routing a groove to insert aluminum angle iron in longer spans, but 3/4" should work, 5/4 will definitely work. If you absolutely HAVE to have 3/4" lumber, use hardwood

Nick DIY 12-03-2010 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrgins (Post 544826)
Don't use particle board for the TV shelf. Use laminated 1x or 5/4. I've even gone as far as routing a groove to insert aluminum angle iron in longer spans, but 3/4" should work, 5/4 will definitely work. If you absolutely HAVE to have 3/4" lumber, use hardwood

mrgins,
Thank you for your advice! I like the idea of the melamine surface, but definitely had the same reservations about the particle board. I'd like for the surface to be consistent throughout and the 3/4 particle board is the plan right now.

Unfortunately, HD does not offer a melamine laminated 1x or 5/4, or even ply. I'd worry about using a different mfg. for this one shelf because of different tinting to the finish (maybe I'm just being paranoid here?)

I've actually considered building a "box" out of the melamine for this shelf, with "joist like" framing for support. Or maybe a welded steel cage, with the shelf sitting atop and a face to cover the support.

Please let me know if I'm missing something and I'll gladly listen to further advice.

Nick DIY 12-03-2010 02:33 PM

Also, mrgins - are you indicating that you believe that the these pilaster supports will work for this application?

Don't worry, I'd never hold anybody responsible besides myself if it doesn't hold, just looking for an educated guess(since I've never worked with this type of shelving support myself.

mrgins 12-03-2010 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick DIY (Post 544852)
Also, mrgins - are you indicating that you believe that the these pilaster supports will work for this application?

Don't worry, I'd never hold anybody responsible besides myself if it doesn't hold, just looking for an educated guess(since I've never worked with this type of shelving support myself.

I was focusing more on the shelf material. I assume by pilaster supports you mean the kv brackets. I wouldn't use particle board on them if you plan to hold something heavy on the shelf. Why would you need them to hold up the tv shelf? Surely the tv can be on a fixed shelf on wall cleats

Nick DIY 12-04-2010 09:46 AM

http://www.knapeandvogt.com/resource...0/img_1425.jpg

These are the pilaster clips. They're not very big. As far as I can gather, probably like 5/8in long.

I'll definitely take your advice on the material. I can see what you're saying about the particle board. I may actually reinforce all of the shelves or try to find a better melamine laminated material.

BTW, I want the shelf to be adjustable because it may not always be holding the big TV, maybe convert it to a small built in desk later or such.

Thank you mrgins.

Augie Dog 12-04-2010 10:09 AM

You can buy 1" melamine but not from Home Cheapo. You will need a good hardwood supplier. The cabinetmakers in your area buy teir material from some place other than a big box store. Start there.

What is your plan for the front edge?

Plastic Laminate on a plywood substrate would be the more sound way of approaching this shelf.

The shelf bracket you are looking to use will hold fine. It's your shelf material sagging ,or worse yet, failing is the concern.

Nick DIY 12-04-2010 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Augie Dog (Post 545195)
You can buy 1" melamine but not from Home Cheapo. You will need a good hardwood supplier. The cabinetmakers in your area buy teir material from some place other than a big box store. Start there.

What is your plan for the front edge?

Plastic Laminate on a plywood substrate would be the more sound way of approaching this shelf.

The shelf bracket you are looking to use will hold fine. It's your shelf material sagging ,or worse yet, failing is the concern.

I'll research suppliers of heavier material in my area. For any exposed edges, I was going to use the iron on melamine stripping. For the front edge, I may add a face board for added support (maybe also on the back).

Since the span of these shelves is fairly wide, I may tuck angle iron up in the corners behind the faces to prevent sagging. Not sure about that.

I'm going to order the brackets now thanks to your bode of confidence. Thanks.

Augie Dog 12-04-2010 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick DIY (Post 545217)
I'll research suppliers of heavier material in my area. For any exposed edges, I was going to use the iron on melamine stripping. For the front edge, I may add a face board for added support (maybe also on the back).

Since the span of these shelves is fairly wide, I may tuck angle iron up in the corners behind the faces to prevent sagging. Not sure about that.

I'm going to order the brackets now thanks to your bode of confidence. Thanks.

Forget the angle iron.

If you are applying a wood nosing it will need a finish, yes? Probably paint. If that is the case, I would say use a paintgrade plywood and paint the whole thing. You can add a nosing to the back as well. 1 1/2" wide maple front and back will keep the shelf from sagging on a 3' span. You could always go wider on the nosing if your span is greater.

But if you want the instant finish that melamine provides, consider taking a stab at plastic laminate. Same instant finish, much more durable and you can skin the built up nosing to match.

Nick DIY 12-04-2010 01:42 PM

Augie Dog,
I should have clarified that the face would be of the same melamine laminated material.

I'm avoiding painted wood for all of the obvious reasons. I will consider laminating myself, but that may be time prohibitive. I'll probably go with the heavier pre-laminated material route that you'd suggested earlier.

Thanks again.

mrgins 12-04-2010 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Augie Dog (Post 545325)
Forget the angle iron.

If you are applying a wood nosing it will need a finish, yes? Probably paint. If that is the case, I would say use a paintgrade plywood and paint the whole thing. You can add a nosing to the back as well. 1 1/2" wide maple front and back will keep the shelf from sagging on a 3' span. You could always go wider on the nosing if your span is greater.

But if you want the instant finish that melamine provides, consider taking a stab at plastic laminate. Same instant finish, much more durable and you can skin the built up nosing to match.

I've used angle "iron" (actually aluminum) with great success to stiffen shelving without making it look like a bridge support!

Augie Dog 12-04-2010 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick DIY (Post 545339)
Augie Dog,
I should have clarified that the face would be of the same melamine laminated material.

I'm avoiding painted wood for all of the obvious reasons. I will consider laminating myself, but that may be time prohibitive. I'll probably go with the heavier pre-laminated material route that you'd suggested earlier.

Thanks again.

You are welcome

If you end up using melamine for the nosing, edge band the shelf and consider placing the "nosing" piece of melamine slightly back from the leading edge. This will avoid an awkward looking joint between the two. Banding the bottom edge of the nosing is optional depending on the height of the shelf but I would band it anyway.

Good luck to you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrgins (Post 545392)
I've used angle "iron" (actually aluminum) with great success to stiffen shelving without making it look like a bridge support!

I'm not saying it is not a workable solution. I don't feel it is necessary in this case is all. No disrespect to you or anyone else that has had success with angle iron.:thumbsup:

mrgins 12-05-2010 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Augie Dog (Post 545574)



I'm not saying it is not a workable solution. I don't feel it is necessary in this case is all. No disrespect to you or anyone else that has had success with angle iron.:thumbsup:

No offence taken, Augie. I like the varied ideas that come up in these forums.

Nick DIY 12-06-2010 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Augie Dog (Post 545574)
If you end up using melamine for the nosing, edge band the shelf and consider placing the "nosing" piece of melamine slightly back from the leading edge. This will avoid an awkward looking joint between the two. Banding the bottom edge of the nosing is optional depending on the height of the shelf but I would band it anyway.

Thanks. This makes a lot of sense. I was contemplating how to go about this without it looking like a hack-job. This is the perfect solution.

BTW, I have access to free scraps of angle iron, cut off saws and drill presses, so that's my primary motivation for considering the angle iron.

Thanks everybody for your help.

Nick DIY 12-07-2010 10:46 AM

Just a quick update:

I stopped at the HD last night for some other supplies and took a look at this melamine board that they stock. Way chintzy, super thin coat of melamine and every sheet that they had there was already busted up on the edges.

I'll definitely not be using that junk.


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