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pattie 09-23-2011 11:48 AM

interior wall on heated concrete floor
 
How can I build a large 40 ft long by 17 ft high interior wall on a concrete floor that has heat tubes all in it?

pattie 09-23-2011 11:51 AM

ok, saftety is important

bob22 09-23-2011 12:44 PM

By making sure you don't hit the tubes when anchoring the sole plate to the concrete but that is obvious. Are the pipes metal? Might be able to have someone come in to detect their layout. If you've building plans from the home's building process, they may show them as well. I doubt (but others will surely chime in) that construction adhesive to anchor would be sufficient.

pattie 09-23-2011 01:30 PM

attaching interior wall to heated concrete
 
The tubes are not metal and there are no plans that show them. I was hoping that glue would do it. But if not we may have to use a track ( at top) type of partition. This is a church where we are trying to divide the sanctuary.

shazapple 09-23-2011 01:44 PM

Perhaps you could have someone with a thermographic scanner come in and help you identify their locations?

mrgins 09-23-2011 05:29 PM

turn the heat up and have someone scan it

woodworkbykirk 09-25-2011 06:15 PM

turning up the heat wont do it, it will give a close location but its still too much risk and if you do hit a pipe its a huge mess to fix.

snap a chalkine on the floor for the sole plate location then mark a plumb line on each end up the wall then snap a line on the ceiling, fix the top plate to the ceiling then cut all your studs slightly snug while gluing the sole plate to teh floor, as you work your way along make sure to keep the sole plate on the chalk line. you dont need to fill every stud at first just enough for the bottom plate to be kept on the line. let the glue set up then finish studding in the wall

mrgins 09-26-2011 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wooworkbykirk (Post 735828)
turning up the heat wont do it, it will give a close location but its still too much risk and if you do hit a pipe its a huge mess to fix.

snap a chalkine on the floor for the sole plate location then mark a plumb line on each end up the wall then snap a line on the ceiling, fix the top plate to the ceiling then cut all your studs slightly snug while gluing the sole plate to teh floor, as you work your way along make sure to keep the sole plate on the chalk line. you dont need to fill every stud at first just enough for the bottom plate to be kept on the line. let the glue set up then finish studding in the wall

I agree it's a huge mess to fix, but if, as shazapple suggested, you use a thermographic scanner, it should give you the location of the pipes.
This is too long of a wall, and in a heavily used area to rely on just glue. How deep into the floor do they lay these pipes? is it possible to drill a 1/2" deep hole to sink a pin into thru the bottom plate? This would prevent lateral movement in combination with adhesive.

oh'mike 09-26-2011 07:36 AM

I've glued the bottom plate on a hydronic heated floor---(PL Premium)---never had a problem---However a wall that tall makes me nervous---

The tubes are often quite close to the surface---a thermo imaging camera will give you the info that you need---Mike----

BigJim 09-26-2011 12:22 PM

When I lived in west Tennessee I could get an adhesive called F-26 made by Leeches. I glued a 2X4 on the floor and had to move it three days later, I literally had to take the 2X4 up in splinters then chisel the glue up. I can't get it on this end of the state but I wouldn't be afraid of using just that glue as I know it would hold especially with a 17 foot wall pressure on top of it.

I used this glue on all my stairs and stubborn plates and never had the first problem.
http://www.leechadhesives.com/F26products.htm

Quite odd, on a church post and my post count is 666.

oldhouseguy 09-26-2011 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jiju1943 (Post 736295)
When I lived in west Tennessee I could get an adhesive called F-26 made by Leeches. I glued a 2X4 on the floor and had to move it three days later, I literally had to take the 2X4 up in splinters then chisel the glue up. I can't get it on this end of the state but I wouldn't be afraid of using just that glue as I know it would hold especially with a 17 foot wall pressure on top of it.

I used this glue on all my stairs and stubborn plates and never had the first problem.
http://www.leechadhesives.com/F26products.htm

Quite odd, on a church post and my post count is 666.

Could be argued the devil made you do it.

DexterII 09-26-2011 12:54 PM

Even if they existed, I would not trust plans for locating these lines; too many variables. However, if I knew who the heating contractor was, I would definitely contact them, on the chance, albeit slim, that they have accurate photographs or sketches, "as built". Otherwise, based on our experience at locating such lines in shops and barns, using infrared, for the purpose of mounting equipment to the floor, I would give it at least a 75% of succeding. Depending on their spacing, and where you would need to anchor the wall, you could have several inches of room for error each way.

woodworkbykirk 09-26-2011 03:36 PM

typically the pipes should be towards the bottom portion of the slab, if they were properly fastened they will be held down with stirrups. however when the slab is placed the concrete finishers are sloshing around int eh concrete and hooking their feet up on them. dont risk puncturing a pipe for a wall.

the other thing is the glue is simply there to keep the wall from sliding laterally not to hold it down for vertical, same as the pin . glue wont be an issue

JoJo-Arch 09-26-2011 04:22 PM

Partition Wall
 
:detective:Glueing the bottom sole plate is more than sufficient. I would not recommend drilling or puncturing the concrete surface. Fixing a leak in a polyethylene pipe is a major undertaking.

The height of the wall has no bearing on the question of strength whether the bottom plate is fixed to the concrete or not. As this is an internal partition, there are no external live loads like wind applying horizontal forces. The only live loads likely are people pressing against the wall, :wallbash:and even if this happens, the wall will buckle, but the bottom plate will stay firm. Of more concern is the dead load, and the weight of the wall itself, buckling the studs and causing the wall to bow. I would ask for 2"x8" studs to be on the safe side, with 3 sets of noggings or blocks. Ask a structural engineer to check these sizes. There should also be galvanized strap bracing nailed across each stud at approx. 45 deg. angle and criss-crossed for each 16'0" panel. Also, remember to install wiring for power, light, data, Display TV, intercom, wall clock etc as required and before applying drywall sheeting. Also you may consider pressing in acoustic batts if the wall needs to be sound proofed. Cheers, from the land of OZ.:euro:

woodworkbykirk 09-26-2011 04:56 PM

ahhh, another chippy getting into the mix. great minds think alike

since its a partition wall, the metal let in T-straps arent really required, the whole reasoning behind them is for keeping walls square when structural sheathing isnt used. blocking however is a good touch


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