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Old 05-03-2010, 02:01 PM   #16
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Installing new interior doors


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Originally Posted by everyman View Post
I'm trying to establish how far apart the jam legs should be from each other..........
Eric. Measure the jamb width on your existing jambs and make the new jambs the same width. Pro's figure that they are going to cut into the new door at the very least to make the lock strike edge a 3 ° bevel If they tried to make the jamb width wider to accommodate the door clearance they would risk any out of plumb issues leaving an unsightly gap.

It is very important to get the jambs plumb, especially the hinge side, or you are going to get an ill fitting door that might, among other problems, just close all by itself. The Pro’s use long levels like 6’ rather than 4’ levels when installing and shimming door jambs. If you only have a 4’ level, then use a another jamb leg set sideways in conjunction with your shorter level to check for any waviness on the jamb faces.

Gary is the Man, I had the opportunity the same year he published his Door Book to attend his one day Door Seminar.

For nine doors and jambs I would not tackle that without a router to mortise the hinges and a full length hinge template similar to one of these from Templaco.

Here are a couple of other useful Tools:

http://www.templaco.com/html/product.asp?id=127

http://www.amazon.com/Black-Decker-D...2907268&sr=1-3

http://www.amazon.com/Hinge-Drill-Se...2907268&sr=1-2
.
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Old 05-03-2010, 03:07 PM   #17
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Installing new interior doors


I think that your question is "what is the actual finished opening dimension for the door jambs?" At least that's what I'm getting out of it. If that's the case, the actual door opening should be exactly 24", 28", 30", etc... The new doors should be 1/4" to 3/8" smaller when purchased to allow for the margins.

I hope the only cutting you plan on doing to these doors is merely the bottom because you can't raise the head jamb high enough so the doors clear the floor. If you plan on cutting eithr side of the door, even the top, I can promise you will be in for a rude awakening. The term "solid core" merely means the doors are veneered with "solid" finger-jointed wood underneath. Most doors don't have a substantial piece of wood longer than a few inches in them.

Palibob, I'm not sure if I'm reading/comprehending one of your bits of advice right. Are you saying to back-bevel the lock or hinge side of teh door? I've only done/seen the hinge side beveled before to avoid hinge bind. As for the hinge template, I couldn't agree more with you. I used to hang slabs on past homes, thinking I was saving money. Never again, the factory can prehang far easier than any DIY'er.
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Old 05-03-2010, 08:23 PM   #18
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Installing new interior doors


Hi Bob,

I'm not sure I want to use the existing stuff for reference at all. Not exactly a quality build out originally. For some reason the door that came out of this hole was 23.5. Not sure why as there was plenty of room to fit an unmolested 24" in there.

I do fortunately have a 6' level; can't imagine trying to do it with a 4 footer. I also have been tool shopping over the last few months and ordered a templaco and found a very nice used Bosch router. The templaco is pretty nice. IMHO though they could have done a better job designing the backset fences. After adjusting it, the process of tightening the retaining screws for the little plastic fences causes the fence to move which kind of defeats the purpose. There had to be a better way to do that.

Also I discovered the hard way on my first one to check the side of the hinge jam for perfect straightness before going at it with the template. One of my hinges ended up not being set far enough back. Not a lot, just enough to be annoying and I had to recut it.

Perhaps Mr Katz got better at communicating this stuff in the second edition. The book I have has left me shaking my head a number of times. I mentioned the first issue in my question yesterday. Also he jumps into talking about planing the hinge stile before routing the hinge mortises, but doesn't bother to say why he's doing it. Then he does the same thing regarding the lockset side. After mulling it over for a long time, I've come to the conclusion that this is how is able to specify that the width of the jam be exactly the same size as the original unshaved door was. He essentially keystones the door on both sides so it can go into a hole with no extra clearance.

I'm still not entirely sure why this works though. When I look at my new hinges and hold the two plates perfectly parallel there is actually about a 1/16" gap between the plates. Assuming the hinges are perfectly mortised in flush with the surface of the stile and jam, then in the closed position there is a gap there whether you want it or not. It's built into the hinge. Perhaps this is just what you get when you shop at big box stores. I'm doing this on a budget.

In any event. I got impatient yesterday and went ahead and allowed 3/16" free play in the jam, in other words the frame is that much wider than the uncut door. The hinge side ended up with a little more than 1/16" nice and even due to the hinge gap issue I mentioned above. The lockset stile just barely closes but rubs tight on the leading corner, so I'm going to need a slight chamfer but not a full 3 degrees. Given that I can't afford to go buy a proper door plane, that suits me fine. I think I can just hit it lightly with a belt sander. Whatever gap is there is even, not objectionable, and many times more accurate than the rush job builder's grade work that was here before.

I haven't decided whether to try Katz's method or not on the other ones. The way I did this one seems pretty straight ahead even though it's so far taken me an embarrassing 8 hours and it's still not done.

Thanks
Eric

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaliBob View Post
Eric. Measure the jamb width on your existing jambs and make the new jambs the same width. Pro's figure that they are going to cut into the new door at the very least to make the lock strike edge a 3 ° bevel If they tried to make the jamb width wider to accommodate the door clearance they would risk any out of plumb issues leaving an unsightly gap.

It is very important to get the jambs plumb, especially the hinge side, or you are going to get an ill fitting door that might, among other problems, just close all by itself. The Pro’s use long levels like 6’ rather than 4’ levels when installing and shimming door jambs. If you only have a 4’ level, then use a another jamb leg set sideways in conjunction with your shorter level to check for any waviness on the jamb faces.

Gary is the Man, I had the opportunity the same year he published his Door Book to attend his one day Door Seminar.

For nine doors and jambs I would not tackle that without a router to mortise the hinges and a full length hinge template similar to one of these from Templaco.

Here are a couple of other useful Tools:

http://www.templaco.com/html/product.asp?id=127

http://www.amazon.com/Black-Decker-D...2907268&sr=1-3

http://www.amazon.com/Hinge-Drill-Se...2907268&sr=1-2
.
aa
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Old 05-03-2010, 08:34 PM   #19
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Installing new interior doors


I guess if I was buying from a door maker I would have had that option but the Depot generally sells even sized doors

As I mentioned to Bob, I ended up using 3/16" over and it's leaving me with a little bit of sanding to do on the lockset stile. I assume you are correct about the veneered up door. Given that a solid 6 panel stain ready pine door was only about $80 from the Depot, I guess they had to cut corners somewhere. I sure hope that there is some solid stock on the edges because I'm about to hit mine with a belt sander!

Yes as I mentioned to Bob, the Katz book shows him applying a 3 degree chamfer to both door stiles so evidently it's done.

Eric



Quote:
Originally Posted by jomama45 View Post
I think that your question is "what is the actual finished opening dimension for the door jambs?" At least that's what I'm getting out of it. If that's the case, the actual door opening should be exactly 24", 28", 30", etc... The new doors should be 1/4" to 3/8" smaller when purchased to allow for the margins.

I hope the only cutting you plan on doing to these doors is merely the bottom because you can't raise the head jamb high enough so the doors clear the floor. If you plan on cutting eithr side of the door, even the top, I can promise you will be in for a rude awakening. The term "solid core" merely means the doors are veneered with "solid" finger-jointed wood underneath. Most doors don't have a substantial piece of wood longer than a few inches in them.

Palibob, I'm not sure if I'm reading/comprehending one of your bits of advice right. Are you saying to back-bevel the lock or hinge side of teh door? I've only done/seen the hinge side beveled before to avoid hinge bind. As for the hinge template, I couldn't agree more with you. I used to hang slabs on past homes, thinking I was saving money. Never again, the factory can prehang far easier than any DIY'er.
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Old 05-03-2010, 09:50 PM   #20
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Installing new interior doors


Quote:
Originally Posted by everyman View Post
I guess if I was buying from a door maker I would have had that option but the Depot generally sells even sized doors

As I mentioned to Bob, I ended up using 3/16" over and it's leaving me with a little bit of sanding to do on the lockset stile. I assume you are correct about the veneered up door. Given that a solid 6 panel stain ready pine door was only about $80 from the Depot, I guess they had to cut corners somewhere. I sure hope that there is some solid stock on the edges because I'm about to hit mine with a belt sander!

Yes as I mentioned to Bob, the Katz book shows him applying a 3 degree chamfer to both door stiles so evidently it's done.

Eric
You should have no issue with a belt sander, or even quite a few passes with a planer, but you don't want to be using a saw of any kind.

I'm suprised to here that the doors aren't undersied at all, as I've bought from them in the past (at least I tink so) and they were always smaler.

Good luck.
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Old 05-04-2010, 06:18 AM   #21
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Installing new interior doors


jomama, is right about using caution about cutting doors. I use a Festool TS 55 Circular Saw on the Festool guide rail to trim off only up to about an inch max when hanging an interior or exterior replacement door.

The last exterior door I did was out of plumb on one side by almost an inch. By careful scribing (per Katz) and using a long guide rail I was able to make a full length taper cut from almost zero on one end to an inch at the top and at the same time set the saw to get my 3 deg bevel. A light sanding (no planing) finished the job.

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Old 05-04-2010, 09:35 AM   #22
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Installing new interior doors


used to be the hinge side was square and the latch side had a slight bevel to clear jamb at closing, the hinges would have a slight throw to them to assist with closing clearance
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Old 05-04-2010, 11:45 AM   #23
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Installing new interior doors


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jomama, is right about using caution about cutting doors. I use a Festool TS 55 Circular Saw on the Festool guide rail to trim off only up to about an inch max when hanging an interior or exterior replacement door.


That's a sweet saw Bob, color me jealous. Hell of a lot nicer than my $39 Rigid. It's kind of ironic that they call it rigid when the first time you set it down a bit too hard the fence bends

I'm going to do my best not to cut these at all. A few of the existing doors had 1/2" taken off them. However from the two naked holes I've seen so far there was no reason for it as the holes were quite large enough to accommodate an even size. Fingers crossed. Given how long the first one took me, I'm certainly glad I'm not trying to make my living at it.

I think it likely though that I may have to do some bottom trimming because we need fairly large gaps here to accommodate the HVAC. Since my circular saw is so crappy, I'm wondering if I should get a helper and run it through my table saw. It's just a small hitachi portable but is of better quality than my circular. Would I risk a huge amount of chip out? Wondering if it would help if I pushed it through with a thin sheet of plywood under it?

That magic cut you made sounded like fun. I have to wonder what kind of Rumple Stilskin house is that far out of plumb. Sounds like the bad door was the least of their problems.
Eric
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Old 05-04-2010, 02:28 PM   #24
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Installing new interior doors


Eric, To cut the door bottom you could use a guide made from a straight scrap >3ft section of a 1x or 2x lumber clamped in two places parallel to the cut line. Use a decent blade and keep a slight sideways aim to keep the saw shoe riding against the guide.
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Old 05-13-2010, 01:26 PM   #25
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Installing new interior doors


I have a question about door jambs. We live in a mid-40s house with plaster on plasterboard walls. My husband has embarked on widening a closet door to put in a pair of hung doors.
I was looking at what he's done so far - I'm realizing that while the adjacent wall on the outside of the closet is flush with the new door jambs, the inside of the closet wall protrudes out quite a bit from the jamb face. Is there such a casing that can hide/negotiate this difference or should he be making custom width jambs. I'm pretty sure what he had on there right now was purchased from either HD or Lowes and they only come in one size there I think. Thanks!
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Old 05-13-2010, 09:31 PM   #26
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Installing new interior doors


smoochas, he can just add jam extensions.

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