DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum

DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum (http://www.diychatroom.com/)
-   Carpentry (http://www.diychatroom.com/f14/)
-   -   Installing Kitchen cabinets help (http://www.diychatroom.com/f14/installing-kitchen-cabinets-help-9445/)

helpless handyman 06-26-2007 05:37 PM

Installing Kitchen cabinets help
 
Hi guys,

I am about to start installing my kitchen wall cabinets and my first wall cabinet is an 18 inc.,followed by a 21 inc cabinet, then a 30inc, and so on. My question is, since my first cabinet has to start 1 inc away from the wall, as per kitchen layout so that all cabinets line up. I will only be able to secure the first cabinet to one stud, since they are 16inc in center. Any other ideas will be greatly appreciated, 5/8 sheetrock, studs on 16inc center. Thanks to all!

WNYcarpenter 06-26-2007 07:49 PM

Perhaps this may help....lay all your upper cabinets on the floor in the order they are designed to fit against the wall. Clamp them together one box at a time, pre-drill, counter-sink, and lubricate each screw. Assemble the entire section and lift it as one and attatch. This process allows you the make sure the face frames stay flush and tight, and more importantly makes for one solid unit that doesn't make it necessary for every cab to be supported by a stud.

Mark your studs on the wall, and transfer those measurements to your pre-assembled cabinet section laying on the floor, also mark a level, and plumb line (on the wall) so when you lift the section as a whole you know where you want to be. Pre-drill the cabinets on the floor, and start the screws to minimize the time and frustration while holding them in place.

Two common methods...cut blocks of wood the exact distance between the counter top and bottom of the cabinets and rest the uppers on the blocks while you fasten them to the wall, or you can also screw a cleat or horizontal support at the desired height to rest the cabinet section while you fasten them

RippySkippy 06-26-2007 08:00 PM

You don't mention if they're face frames or not...so I'll assume they are. If you fasten the back securely to the wall, then the face frames, you shouldn't have any problems assuming you level and shim like you ought. If the back edge of the cabinet seems less secure than you like, you can always cut a piece to fit between the carcase sides and screw them to each other.

If you haven't gotten any yet pick up some 2-1/2" GRK cabinet screws to fasten the backs to the wall, and GRK trim screws to fasten the face frames....they cost like gold but IMO they are worth every penny.

The pony cabinet claw face frame clamp work well...just don't try to over tighten...they will pull the cabinet out of alignment. The best thing about these clamps is centering function for the pilot hole for the screw.

If you don't have one, see if you can beg/borrow/steal...no wait don't steal, it'll set your project back too much, an impact driver. The last kitchen I did, I used the impact driver, and GRK screws, in QS white oak, and they performed beautifully. IF you use an impact driver get at least a couple of bits, I had one shatter I'm sure from the driver.

Good luck!

helpless handyman 06-26-2007 08:35 PM

Thanks guys, you're awesome! What size on the trim screws to fasten the face frames? Also wouldn't a cordless drill (dewalt 18v)work instead of an impact? Thanks for the screw links!

helpless handyman 06-26-2007 08:42 PM

Rippyskippy, can you explain in more details: you can always cut a piece to fit between the carcase sides and screw them to each other. Also fastening the face frames?

Thanks!

send_it_all 06-26-2007 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by helpless handyman (Post 50570)
Rippyskippy, can you explain in more details: you can always cut a piece to fit between the carcase sides and screw them to each other. Also fastening the face frames?

Thanks!

I think what he is talking about is the fact that usually cabinet face frames overhang the side of the cabinet by 1/8th inch or so. This leaves a 1/4" gap between the sides of the cabinets (behind the face frames). If you take a piece of filler material and fill the 1/4" gap, you can then run a screw through one cabinet and into the next without pulling the side off of the cabinet. This would make them more stable (being attached at an additional point). As for fastening the faceframes...this is standard practice. In addition to attaching cabinets to the wall, you should be attaching them together by drilling a hole through the face frame (under the hinge plate if possible)...then countersinking it...then driving a 2 or 2-1/2" screw through the hole into the next cabinet over. This should be done while the two cabinets are clamped together and after you have made sure the two frames are completely flush with eachother. What he means by lubricating the screw is...when you run a screw into hard wood such as maple or oak...it wants to sieze up or snap off due to the intense friction. Rub the screw threads on a wax candle or a bar of soap or the like before driving it into cabinet. This only applies to the screws holding face frames together...not the ones going into the studs. Hope this helped.

troubleseeker 06-26-2007 09:48 PM

One oversized head cabinet screw top and bottom will easily support the first cabinet as the other cabs will screw to it and the wall and help support also. There should be a filler between the cab and side wall to eliminate the 1" gap. You could also take a piece of 3/4" plywood about 11 " wide by a couple of inches shorter than the height of the cab, and screw it to the side wall. You will probably only find a stud in the very corner, but 5 or six screws will into the corner will be more than adequate. Then tack a couple of ripped pieces to the 3/4 ply to bring it out to the 1' dimension. Now you have a solid backing to send a couple of screws throught the side of the cabinet into. If it is an ell shaped run of cabinets and the cabinet in discussion is a "blind corner", you will be able to carefully send a couple of screwns into the side of the face frame of the abutting cabinet, so this coupled with just the two screws in the first cabinet will be sufficient.The safest way to locate these screws is to put a couple of runs of masking tape down the area where the cabinets but, hold the abutting cab against the wall and draw a line down the face of it. When you take this cabinet down,this line will exactly locate the front of the stile, giving you a precise line to reference a couple of holes off of.

RippySkippy 06-27-2007 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by helpless handyman (Post 50569)
Thanks guys, you're awesome! What size on the trim screws to fasten the face frames? Also wouldn't a cordless drill (dewalt 18v)work instead of an impact? Thanks for the screw links!

A cordless drill would and does work, the impact driver makes the screws melt like budda into the wood. The key though is the GRK screws, or any star drive screw...they won't cam out like phillips heads. In addition the screw tips are serrated, and I believe that helps the screws to drive true, and helps decrease friction when driving.

Depending on the type of wood, lubrication may or may not be needed...the candle wax is a good suggestion...I've "heard" not witnessed many say when bar soap is used this way, it will cause screws to corrode. Dunno, use wax if needed.

Size? Measure your face frames and give your self some fudge factor. My rails were 1-1/5" so together that makes 3" of material, by the time you counter sink the screws, I would use 2-1/4" or 2-1/2" inch giving you 3/4 to 1/2" margin of safety. Nothing will spoil your install like having a screw poke out where it's not wanted!

Send_it_all is spot on with his clarification of my quick description of fastening the back of the cabinets. It may not be necessary...it's amazing how solid the whole unit becomes when you start securing the cabinets together.

As a side note...for those that have the luxury of having the the wall open, spend the extra time fastening blocking to the studs before rocking. It's really easy after the kitchen plan is complete, when you fasten cabinets, just screw away! Don't forget the blocking for the bottom of the upper cabinets as well. While it may be over kill...it's really sweet to not have to worry about locating studs during install.

Let us know how it's going, and pictures would be appreciated :thumbsup:!

RippySkippy 06-27-2007 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WNYcarpenter (Post 50560)
...Assemble the entire section and lift it as one and attatch. This process allows you the make sure the face frames stay flush and tight, and more importantly makes for one solid unit that doesn't make it necessary for every cab to be supported by a stud.

I have a story to share about doing it this way...please don't think I'm criticizing your advice, I'm not, I want others to think the process through and avoid a potential problem

In my old neighborhood, I was helping my neighbor/friend with his kitchen remodel...you know, I'll help you for pizza and beer, plus I love to do this stuff when someone else is footing the bill! Anyway, his walls were crooked and he assembled the uppers on the floor, fastening the face frames together. He wanted to start the cabinet install one evening, and I couldn't help until later. About an hour before I got there, he thought he could grab the 3 uppers by him self and put them on the wall. While the weight wasn't an issue...there wasn't adequate support for the left and right cabinet. The stress cracked the attached face frames, breaking them loose but not off of the cabinet...way too noticeable to leave. He ended up replacing the left and right cabinet. If he had another body, or supported the assembly, I'm sure he would of gotten along fine.

The up side by doing this is that in certain situations it can make installs much quicker if the walls are really crooked, shim behind the cabinet to make it straight on the front, and screw it off.

WNYcarpenter 06-27-2007 01:24 PM

No offense taken rippyskippy....somethings are taken for granted and your experience was worth sharing. I should have also suggested to make sure you have help, and not to let go until each box is fastened. I think we both agree that pre-assembly is the fastest, cleanest route to take....

The cabinet claw as mentioned is A1... if you can get your hands on a set it's well worth it.

I've had pretty good luck with liquid dish detergent, and the best I think is a wax ring for a toilet.

helpless handyman 06-27-2007 02:53 PM

Thanks guys, I really like the preassembled way. Can it still be done if I have an 18inc by 36, 21 inc by 36, then a 30 inc by 15 over stove top, then a 21 inc. by 36, then a 36 by 15 over the fridge?:whistling2: For some reason I don't think it will work, since two of the cabinets in the middle will be smaller in heights. I have also decided to buy the pony clamps, $50 for the pair and I beleive it will make my life a little easier. I can always sell them on ebay when I'm done. I just found out the cabinets will not arrive until 3 weeks.

WNYcarpenter 06-27-2007 04:14 PM

You have to use a littile discretion as far as how many cabs to assemble at once. The height differences don't make much difference, but keep into consideration manpower, and fracture points as rippyskippy pointed out. It will work....you might need to ask for help to hold it in place, but I promise you it will save you time and frustration.

Concentrate on keeping the top of your cabinets flush as well as the face frames....so far your advice has been rock solid....like mentioned you do want to add shims or spacers @ the backside of your cabs.(this will be more apparent once you begin assembly)

helpless handyman 06-27-2007 09:11 PM

Thanks :thumbsup:

RippySkippy 06-27-2007 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by helpless handyman (Post 50662)
...if I have an 18inc by 36, 21 inc by 36, then a 30 inc by 15 over stove top, then a 21 inc. by 36, then a 36 by 15 over the fridge?

wow that's quite a sting....I don't think I'd do that in one shot. Maybe the first 2, then the next 3. You'll be able to get a better feel for things as you move on...remember take it slow and easy...fast installs NEVER work out well. Lots of hands are a plus as well.

As for the shims, I would recommend you go to your local lumber yard and see if they have some of the cedar shingles that you can get...I like them way better than the little narrow shims in the shrink wrap, the don't seem to split as bad and have a longer taper.

By the way...it's not been mentioned yet...but I like to remove the doors and shelves....depending on they type of doors and shelves, it'll take maybe 1/2 to 1/3 of the weight away. Make sure you mark their orientation first though...you don't want one installed upside down and don't mis-place the hardware when it's removed.:whistling2: Not that I'd know anything about that...............yeah that's it.

Before removing all the screws for the doors, some have a catch that allows them to come off with out tools.

Take pictures, before and after...you'll not regret it. Something I've been doing on my personal installs...take a current paper, put it in a large zip lock bag and put under one of the base cabinets. It's a time capsule of sots for the next person to rip them out.

Since you have some time for the cabinets to arrive, locate and mark your studs, check and re-check your measurements, and mentally develop a plan of how your going to make this a successful event.

helpless handyman 06-28-2007 08:04 AM

Thanks RippySkippy, I was planning on doing three at a time, you just read my mind, lol. I only will have another person helping me, so I don't want the cabinets to rip apart, they cost too much to begin with. Yes I will definately take of doors. I also picked up a bundle of the cedar shingles a week ago, when I had to install 6 doors, they are Much better then those little crapy shingles they sell at Home Cheapo!!! I wanted to take this time to Thank You, and everyone that has contribute there two cents to this post. All of you guys that work hard during the day, and then come home and take time to read peoples post and answer them will definately be Blessed in the long run. Thanks again:thumbsup:


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:21 PM.


Copyright 2003-2014 Escalate Media LP. All Rights Reserved