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Old 05-31-2013, 08:52 PM   #1
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how to support wall to replace bottom plate


hello

I would like to understand how I can support an exterior wall while I remove the bottom sole plate to replace it. About 6ft of it is rotten. It's at the corner of the house thus I think the corner is still supported

The vertical stud attaching to the sole plate also have their bottom 6" rotten.
Once I put in the new sole plate, I will cut the bottom 10" and put a new block and sister those studs

Thanks much

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Old 05-31-2013, 09:02 PM   #2
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how to support wall to replace bottom plate


Got a picture?
Just build a temperary wall to support the ceiling joist.
Have you figured out why it rotted out.
You need to know that info before hand and do something to fix that before fixing the plate.

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Old 05-31-2013, 09:45 PM   #3
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I'm not big into construction carpentry, but I don't really get why people build temporary walls all the time when jacks seem so much more convenient.
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Old 05-31-2013, 09:47 PM   #4
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how to support wall to replace bottom plate


Thanks Joe.

What does a temporary wall looks like?

The bottom was rotten because my shower pan leaked. I ripped out the shower down to studs in order to change the tile, but then to surprise found out I need to fix my frame due to this water damage.

It's a outside wall, stucco is on the outside, and there is a little window in the wall (where you see the triple 2x4).

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Old 05-31-2013, 10:24 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by jeffnc View Post
I'm not big into construction carpentry, but I don't really get why people build temporary walls all the time when jacks seem so much more convenient.
Actually a temp wall is just a bunch of cheap 2x4 and supports the structure you are working on while replacing the rotten wood.
A jack is great, but a jack does not support a wall ... it is a jack and it supports or lifts at one point.

2x4's are cheap and great for temp walls for support, when done with them, all dried out and twisted and make great chicken coops.
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Old 06-01-2013, 12:25 AM   #6
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Jacks - I wonder for me if that is a telepost? They are ok, and in certain instances I have used them. They do put all the weight on one spot and can crush/bend/go through a floor. Depends on circumstances.
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Old 06-01-2013, 12:35 AM   #7
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This is a shower room and it has another parallel to it. The 2 walls are 3ft apart.

Is the temporary wall also a wall parallel to it? How close should it be? Can my shower wall serve as a temporary wall?

It's might not be feasible to have the wall ve close because my trusses are rotten and it might not a good idea to have them as support.

Thanks
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Old 06-01-2013, 02:00 AM   #8
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Floor trusses would be my first thing to fix!
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Old 06-01-2013, 07:53 AM   #9
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They do put all the weight on one spot and can crush/bend/go through a floor.
You would usually put a plank of wood underneath, and also use several along the area to disperse the weight.
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Old 06-01-2013, 08:16 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by mae-ling View Post
Floor trusses would be my first thing to fix!
No chit, those are in BAD SHAPE.

If you're unfamiliar with setting up a support wall then it might be a very good idea to call in a professional contractor to help you on this. That looks like pretty severe damage. I'd have serious reservations about where any interior temporary supports could be installed. It may not be possible to support it from the exterior to perform the repairs necessary.

Because, here's the thing, a typical temporary wall goes a few feet inside the wall that needs supporting. Problem is the trusses under that floor look to be damaged enough to possibly make using that kind of support a BIG PROBLEM. You'd be talking about putting a lot more weight farther inside on a truss that already has problems at the ends.

Think of the old "straw that broke the camel's back" saying. Right now you've only got the weight of the floor on those damaged trusses. The wall and structure above are not bearing down on the trusses. If you put up a temporary wall inside that room you'd be moving the weight from the outside, to the inside trusses and potentially cause them to fail.

I gather there's a crawl space below this area? If that's the case then a temporary wall would have to be built on something put down at the ground level and built up from there. Or even if there's a basement below, there'd have to be a support area suitable for carrying a new point load. You cannot just rest a post on the soil or the basement slab as that could just punch through it as the weight was put upon it.

This is one of those areas where you really do need to consider calling in the pros or, at the very least, a structural engineer to come up with a plan.

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Old 06-01-2013, 10:43 AM   #11
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how to support wall to replace bottom plate


Mr. Kearney is absolutely correct about the trusses. All trusses are designed to be carry load (be supported at) the nodes, where the individual pieces come together. As Mr. Kearney correctly noted, you could be supporting the temporary wall between truss nodes, which requires a very careful analysis of the strength of the truss. Even if you bring the temporary wall far enough out from the wall so the wall sits over a truss node, you still need to analyze the truss for loading capacity at the point of support.

Your floor trusses are designed to support distributed floor load, typically around 30 or 40 pounds per square foot, but they are not designed to support point loads such as a temporary wall supporting the house above. The truss manufacturer should in theory be able to tell you if the truss can support additional load. In this case, I would be surprised if they said yes, given the poor condition of the trusses, plus truss manufacturers are not likely to perform structural analysis unless you pay them. You may need to hire an independent engineer to do the analysis. Alternative is to support the wall from the outside, as has been previously discussed.
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Old 06-01-2013, 10:47 AM   #12
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Thanks Daniel, I wasn't thinking about how trusses, even in good shape, aren't designed to handle a new point load along a different part of their span. Good to keep in mind.
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Old 06-05-2013, 08:53 PM   #13
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how to support wall to replace bottom plate


Thank you all for the warnings. I have the same concerns as well and I am working on re-enforcing the trusses.

I was wondering if I have to setup the temp wall at all.

1) the wall to repair is an outside wall of a shower room. The shower has an inside wall parallel to it which is 3ft apart. You can see part of the wall in the bottom right corner of the 1st picture. I think the temp wall would be similar. Is 3ft too far to support it?
If I have to setup the temp wall, I would probably put it over the metal plates which is the strong point of the trusses. And that will be 1ft appart from the inside wall.

2) Right now, I don't think this bottom plate is supporting it at all. The plate is rotten. The plate is installed on top of the subfloor which is decomposing and spongy. I think the wall is hanging to its top plate instead and I can see about a 1/2" sag. In the 2nd picture, you can see at least 2 horizontal studs that I believe is holding the wall in place right now and supporting the roof.


Do you think I can replace the bottom w/o a temp wall?

Is it worth to fix the 1/2" sag which I need to jack up the top plate a bit?

Thoughts?
Thanks
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Old 06-05-2013, 09:11 PM   #14
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I gather there's a crawl space below this area? If that's the case then a temporary wall would have to be built on something put down at the ground level and built up from there. Or even if there's a basement below, there'd have to be a support area suitable for carrying a new point load. You cannot just rest a post on the soil or the basement slab as that could just punch through it as the weight was put upon it.
No crawl space. The shower is on the second floor.

I am re-enforcing the truss first before fixing the sole plate. I explained my fix in this thread
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Old 06-06-2013, 11:18 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by jemhunter View Post
Thank you all for the warnings. I have the same concerns as well and I am working on re-enforcing the trusses.

1) the wall to repair is an outside wall of a shower room. The shower has an inside wall parallel to it which is 3ft apart. You can see part of the wall in the bottom right corner of the 1st picture. I think the temp wall would be similar. Is 3ft too far to support it?
If I have to setup the temp wall, I would probably put it over the metal plates which is the strong point of the trusses. And that will be 1ft appart from the inside wall.
I am not so sure. Those trusses look quite damaged. I would say your first order of business is to repair the floor trusses. It's going to be a real pain to repair them since you can't really do any cut and replace. My first inclination is to use a two prone approach. First looks like the damages are on the top side of these members, you may be able to use some liquid wood epoxy (I mean the good ones like Rot Doctor or Abatron) that are formulated specifically for structural wood repair, I have used them and they do work and pour right into the damaged areas and let it penetrate and set into the voids. Next I would cut triangular shaped plywood and sandwich the trusses on both sides fastened with premium glue and 8d or 10d nails.

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Originally Posted by jemhunter View Post
2) Right now, I don't think this bottom plate is supporting it at all. The plate is rotten. The plate is installed on top of the subfloor which is decomposing and spongy. I think the wall is hanging to its top plate instead and I can see about a 1/2" sag. In the 2nd picture, you can see at least 2 horizontal studs that I believe is holding the wall in place right now and supporting the roof.
Just out of curiosity, if you climb up there and use a clamp to tighten the 1/2" space between the two 2x4s what happens, does the lower piece come up a little or the upper piece come down a little?

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