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Old 05-01-2013, 11:45 AM   #1
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how to reinforce a notched joist?


I have a notch in the bottom of 4- 2x8 joists in my basement to accomadate the tub drain and water lines. The notchs are 1 1/2" high by 5" lengthwise I might need to notch them a little higher seeing as im replacing a faulty part of the drain and the new piece is going to interfere with the drywall going back up. Any suggestions on how to support the affected joists?

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Old 05-01-2013, 12:13 PM   #2
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how to reinforce a notched joist?


Wow! I don't have to tell you how far you are already out of limits. The notch length can only be 1/3 of the actual height of the joist, and you've got 5"? The depth is a problem too, and you're going deeper? You don't mention the location in the span of the joist, but that's important too.

You'll never get by any inspections, but all I can say is to try and hold the bottom edge in tension with a few feet of plumber's strap, nailed most of the way. And even this is bogus because all those nail holes will hinder the holding ability of the strap.

None of this is suggested at all! It's all jury rigging, and will likely fail anyway.

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Old 05-01-2013, 12:34 PM   #3
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how to reinforce a notched joist?


Yea I was surprised at what I saw too although I didnt know the exact Code on how bad it was. The notch in relation to the center beam is 10' away. And on the other side the concrete foundation is 3' away.
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Old 05-01-2013, 12:39 PM   #4
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how to reinforce a notched joist?


This is what it looks like. The one where the drain is, is getting cut out and im putting a "plumbers box" in place to pick up the two cut ends as was suggested by a carpenter. But as far as the other joist as you can see in back left. Im clueless as to how to make it better.
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Old 05-01-2013, 12:42 PM   #5
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how to reinforce a notched joist?


What is the overall unsupported span of the joists?
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Old 05-01-2013, 01:00 PM   #6
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how to reinforce a notched joist?


This might be helpful to you. Note that the length, as used here, is NOT just the usual unsupported distance (span) inside the walls.

FYI... Since most notches are made for round pipes, don't just hack them out with square cuts. Angle the end cuts toward the center of the notch if you can. It actually DOES give a little more strength.

And the "rip" cut, which is usually made with a skill saw (because it's easier) should NOT extend beyond the end of the notch. Get your small keyhole saw out to finish the notch! Just as should be done when cutting the notches in stair stringers........ but most people are too lazy.
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Old 05-01-2013, 02:43 PM   #7
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how to reinforce a notched joist?


HERE is a fun little site with cartoon drawings for this stuff.
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Old 05-01-2013, 03:10 PM   #8
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how to reinforce a notched joist?


Is there room to get notched 3/4 plywood on each side ( or one side ) glued and nailed to the joist.
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Old 05-01-2013, 06:29 PM   #9
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how to reinforce a notched joist?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Willie T View Post
HERE is a fun little site with cartoon drawings for this stuff.
Thank you for the link that was very informative! i appreciate it! but it still leaves me with one question, how will i repair the already notched joists?
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Old 05-01-2013, 07:07 PM   #10
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how to reinforce a notched joist?


redo the plumbing and bring it below the joist and sister another joist along side the compromised ones. this way you don't have the problem. not very fancy or innovative, but it works
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Old 05-01-2013, 10:45 PM   #11
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how to reinforce a notched joist?


If any easier, double the trimmer joists and header it off, IF over 3' of bearing; http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/ic...002_par031.htm

Span is always measured between bearing points, if to codes; Fig. 1 here, from AF & PA whom the codes follow; sorry Willie... http://www.awc.org/technical/spantables/tutorial.html

Scroll to bottom of page for rafter "spans" shown; http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/ic...?bu2=undefined Never includes the bearing.

Gary
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Old 05-01-2013, 11:10 PM   #12
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how to reinforce a notched joist?


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Originally Posted by Gary in WA View Post
If any easier, double the trimmer joists and header it off, IF over 3' of bearing; http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/ic...002_par031.htm

Span is always measured between bearing points, if to codes; Fig. 1 here, from AF & PA whom the codes follow; sorry Willie... http://www.awc.org/technical/spantables/tutorial.html

Scroll to bottom of page for rafter "spans" shown; http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/ic...?bu2=undefined Never includes the bearing.

Gary
Sorry....... That's not my drawing. It came right off the page. (Open, and scroll down.)

http://www22.pair.com/routt/building...s/notching.pdf
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Old 05-02-2013, 11:49 PM   #13
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Yes, I was just clarifying to others that "span" is the distance between bearing points---Not as you stated; "Note that the span length is NOT just the unsupported distance inside the walls." "Length" isn't span of a joist, it includes the total length, over the bearing points and any cantilever. Two different beasts. Actually that pic is similar to another posted in the IRC, which is wrong also, because the notches (at bearing points) are measured from the wall to wall (not total length) dividing the span in thirds, not lengths. Copied from: http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/ic...9_5_par030.htm

Read the title/description--- doesn't match the diagram at all, lol; http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/ic...0_5_par022.htm

I just didn't want anyone to get confused when measuring span, per code... if not now...lol.

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Old 05-03-2013, 10:27 AM   #14
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how to reinforce a notched joist?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary in WA View Post
Yes, I was just clarifying to others that "span" is the distance between bearing points---Not as you stated; "Note that the span length is NOT just the unsupported distance inside the walls." "Length" isn't span of a joist, it includes the total length, over the bearing points and any cantilever. Two different beasts. Actually that pic is similar to another posted in the IRC, which is wrong also, because the notches (at bearing points) are measured from the wall to wall (not total length) dividing the span in thirds, not lengths. Copied from: http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/ic...9_5_par030.htm

Read the title/description--- doesn't match the diagram at all, lol; http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/ic...0_5_par022.htm

I just didn't want anyone to get confused when measuring span, per code... if not now...lol.

Gary
I edited my previous post with wording that may better indicate the intent of the authors on this "notching" stuff.

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