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Old 01-18-2013, 11:48 AM   #16
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how to cover this up


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Originally Posted by wrongdave View Post
To avoid rehashing another asbestos fight, I'd suggest reading the asbestos super thread on here
asbestos

Asbestos is a tricky subject, there is a lot of overreaction to it, but there are also some valid concerns about it. They used to put asbestos in everything, so every old house has some. Most of it doesn't concern me all that much, but I'll admit I would be concerned with asbestos on my ducts. But a hasty DIY removal could cause more harm than good.
ok i skimmed over that thread and it doesnt tell me if, i leave what is on the duct alone and its covered with drywall is that ok or not.

i understand i need to remove the loose stuff. what about the stuff thats not loose on the duct?

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Old 01-18-2013, 01:25 PM   #17
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1. If it's intact, leave it alone. 2. If it can be encapsulated without disturbance, do that. 3. If it's friable (easily reduced to powder by hand pressure), loose and falling off, then it needs to be removed. All of the above are U.S. EPA recommended ways of dealing with asbestos. I would NOT remove the drywall and re-expose what is already covered. I would remove what you can see, since it falls into the class of sentence #3. Keep it wetted down while you remove it. Wear disposable gloves. Damp wipe everything. Bag it all., gloves, rags, everything that may be contaminated. And wear an N95 rated respirator. Disposal........ now that presents a different problem.
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Old 01-18-2013, 02:41 PM   #18
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i understand i need to remove the loose stuff. what about the stuff thats not loose on the duct?
This is where you're going to get a lot of opinions. I personally would not normally be concerned with asbestos inside a wall, however, since yours is on your ducts, that's a little trickier. I would look at the construction of the ducts to see what the chances are that the asbestos on the outside could get inside the duct (through joints or other openings). Also, someone recently posted some ducts that were lined on the outside AND on the inside with a suspected asbestos material. That's pretty scary.

I don't think your decision is limited to that one area. You need to make a decision about all your ducts like that. There have been some other posts on this topic, but I don't thing you're going to find anything conclusive because there are too many differing opinions (even though some folks like to state opinion as though it is fact).
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Old 01-18-2013, 04:04 PM   #19
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Well, Here is why I would get rid of it.

1. In my state, when you sell a home, you are required by law to state whether there is any known dangerous substances present. Not sure what the law is in your state, but selling this house with that stuff hidden, and not divulging it is a crime in my state.

2. You usually cant even see the stuff that kills you. The photo that I posted in a previous post on this matter was taken with an electron microscope. I think Maintenence Man posted one too. These fibers are extremely small, and become airborne very easily, like dust.

3. Having that stuff in the wall would be like having a poisonous snake in the house for me. Why the hell would anyone want to live like that?

It is pretty darn clear to me that somebody must have seen this stuff and basically ignored it, or were too ignorant to know what they had, because they dry-walled right over it. Well now you know, so get it out. If your mate or one of your kids comes down with mesothelioma down the road, you are going to be one sorry ass individual, my friend.

There are no differing opinions coming from me, and I have been to several seminars put on by Johns Manville, I was raised in a town very near Manville, NJ and Manville had a sign when you entered the town "Welcome to Asbestos City" so I know Asbestos, damn near everything was made with it where I lived. Pipe, Siding, Roofing Materials, Duct wrap, even roof shingles contained it.

If what you had was transite, or a product wherein the AB was bound up in a cementitous slurry, I would not be all that concerned, and I would say encapsulate, but What you have is very friable, and as dangerous as it gets. GET IT ALL OUT.
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Last edited by jagans; 01-18-2013 at 04:16 PM.
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Old 01-18-2013, 04:49 PM   #20
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Johns Manville, I was raised in a town very near Manville, NJ and Manville had a sign when you entered the town "Welcome to Asbestos City" so I know Asbestos, damn near everything was made with it where I lived.
There was a Manville plant on Lake Michigan near where I live. Beaches and dunes areas in the area now have warning signs about asbestos that still washes ashore. This is in Illinois Beach State Park, which also has a now closed and in the process of being deconstructed Nuclear Power plant right in the middle of it.
Nice beaches though.
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Old 01-18-2013, 04:52 PM   #21
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In another thread, one DIYer had suspected asbestos tested very quickly for only $50. I am not questioning the opinions of anyone. Just saying, you could have the test done by a lab quickly and cheaply. Then assuming it is posiive, I agree with jagans that removal is called for. However, this is no do it yourself project in my opinion. Call in a professional and yes, it will be costly but worth every penny. Then take advantage of a free consultation with a real estate attorney. Whether you can recover depends on several factors such as whether the previous owner was aware or should have been aware of the asbestos and the law where you reside. For now, do not take any action that will upset the suspected asbestos like using an ordinary shop vac to try to capture the material. I would probably cover it with something temporarily and if I suspected infiltration ito the ducts I would shut the furnace (I assume you have fan forced hot air, correct me if I am wrong). Hope for the best but be prepared for the worst.
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Last edited by retired guy 60; 01-18-2013 at 07:43 PM.
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Old 01-19-2013, 06:11 PM   #22
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My dear friend.

WrongDave is very appropriately named in this instance. The thread that he posted lists narratives of may people who worked with asbestos and have no problems.

Is much of the fear about Asbestos unfounded? Yes.

Here is the problem. Lawyers paint all asbestos with the same brush, and create hype and fear to make money.

There are products that contain asbestos that really do not pose that much of a problem, and there are those that do.

Manville manufactured a product called Transite, and Stratolite. I worked with these products when I was young all the time. They were cementitious type products wherein the asbestos was well bound up and not a problem.

What you have in those pictures is most definitely a problem, from my experience.

A wonderful woman that was my secretary for many years lost her father at 56 years old. He worked in an auto store replacing brakes.

My Partner of 22 years worked with his dad on slate roofs when he was in his 20's He used to tell me about the asbestos his father added to roof cement back in the day. Yes you could buy it in a bag. He also told me about the Asbestos blanket that they installed under slate roofs in Baltimore. He died a few years ago. Blood clots formed in his lungs, broke away and killed him.

I have been to several seminars put on by Manville and believe me, you will not hear a single person in that company with a flippant attitude toward asbestos.

The problem, as another person said is ignorance. Asbestos takes a long time to kill. usually 25- 30 years. If you smoke it is much worse.

The Asbestos you have is friable. Its not like transite, and its not like the backing on linoleum. What you have is friable

By the way, Retired Guy is giving you very good advice. Have it tested. I may be wrong. I was once back in 1957.

ONCE MORE NOW:

THAT STUFF THAT YOU HAVE NEEDS TO COME OUT. GET A PROFESSIONAL IN THERE AND GET IT OUT. REMOVE THE DRYWALL, AND THE DUCTWORK, AND FIX IT PROPERLY. ALSO, GET A LAWYER, AND GET REMUNERATION FROM WHOEVER SOLD YOU THIS HOUSE. ESPECIALLY THE REAL ESTATE AGENCY, AND YOUR HOME INSPECTION COMPANY.
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Last edited by jagans; 01-19-2013 at 06:15 PM.
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Old 01-21-2013, 08:15 PM   #23
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Your sheetrock is very easy to replace. Your future liability is not. Resale value vs asbestos, etc. Duct itself is probably leaky as well.
You can't magically put a trim into a space that isn't there. A built in bookcase, etc, can cover it. You could put a built up base trim, but cost goes up and will not match with the rest of the house. For example, 1x stock that ends on top of the bend, then next trim with back removed, then final quarter round with more of the back removed. I hope I am getting the idea across.
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Old 01-22-2013, 08:02 AM   #24
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carpdad raises an interesting and valid point. If it turns out to be asbestos (and I don't doubt jagan's observation or expertise) and you simply cover the material with trim or even a bookcase, would this be considered concealing a dangerous condition that would not only void a future real estate sale (should you decide to sell someday) but also leave you open to huge liability claims in the event the purchaser, children, relatives or guests come down with an asbestos related illness? I am aware of the treatment for asbestos sometimes referred to as encapsulation where asbestos is simply covered to prevent migration of particles. However, what you are thinking of doing sounds more like concealment if you know or suspect that there is an issue with asbestos. Looking at it from the standpoint of morality, it is like selling a car to a private buyer and neglecting to mention that the master cylinder is defective.
As far as going after the home inspector, it depends on whether the asbestos (we will assume that is what it is) was visible when the inspection was done. I reread OP's first post and he mentions "preexisting," but I don't understand if the material first became visible either from above or below when there was a remodel. Most inspection reports protect the inspector from liability for defects that can only be seen from dismantling a section of the building, which generally makes sense.
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Old 01-22-2013, 08:48 AM   #25
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i didnt get it tested for asbestos but if it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck.... and since this is only part of the duct that is wrapped (the vertical duct inside the wall)
i found it easier and cheaper for me to just take out that duct piece and just replace it.
since i have that opened up again im just going to shim it out further to cover the hole in the floor.

i appreciate everyones help and feedback.
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Old 01-22-2013, 03:38 PM   #26
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It seems like you need to:
Sweep the floor
Wash the walls to remove dirt.
Repaint the walls.
And most likely, get a trim.

Yup, that should about cover it.
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:45 PM   #27
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Poor echobravo...this was like going to the doctor with a sprained wrist, he takes some x-rays and tells you you have bone cancer!! Anyway, sounds like it worked out halfway decent for you without tearing the whole house apart. But let's be grateful there's a lot of good experienced people on here who can recognize dangerous things like asbestos when presented with a photo. You came to the right place echobravo!

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