Heel Joint Attic Repair from Inspection Report

hammerlane · 10-06-2011, 07:51 AM

Just getting around to some home inspection report repairs.
One issue in the report dealt with a heal or heel joint in the attic. It stated in part:

"1) One of the rafters lacks a heal joint connection to the ceiling joist at the north side of the main attic area. It is recommended that solid blocking be installed. "

Check the link below for a photo of the actual inspection report page that deals with this issue and 5 other photos I took showing different views and possible repairs.

My question is what is the proper repair? Take a look at the 2 photos dealing with repairs and suggest if one is better than the other or some other option.

http://s1121.photobucket.com/albums/...now/heeljoint/

Again the inspector only suggested solid blocking be installed and I'm no framing carpenter so am looking for suggestions.

Thanks for looking.

hammerlane · 10-06-2011, 08:03 AM

I think I figured out how to attach the photos here.

**kwikfishron** · 10-06-2011, 09:31 AM

I’m not sure what he’s wanting by the description but the double and triple should be blocked sitting on the wall.

What you’re proposing makes no scene and would add nothing structurally.

hammerlane · 10-06-2011, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwikfishron

but the double and triple should be blocked sitting on the wall.

kwikfish...I assume by you saying wall you mean the joist running perpendicular to the double and triple?

If so, how can the double and triple sit on this joist? The double, the triple and the joist are all on the same plane.

I've been trying to get a hold of the home inspector who wrote the report but he has not returned my calls or email.

Thanks

hammerlane · 10-06-2011, 10:00 AM

Maybe my question should be is it improper the way this double and triple is terminated, without any connection to another framing member ? I am taking the home inspector at his word that something improper is done here. I've attached another photo looking further back the other direction.

**kwikfishron** · 10-06-2011, 10:09 AM

The double and triple are sitting on top of a wall…right? Typically there would be a block on the wall between the two to keep them from twisting.

A heel joint is where the top and bottom chords intersect on a truss, which is why I don’t get his description.

If he’s not returning calls then show up at his office.

hammerlane · 10-06-2011, 11:13 AM

Yes they are sitting on top walls. Doing searching online I did only see the term heel joint dealing with trusses. SO in your opinion the way this double and triple is terminated, without any connection to another framing member, looks OK?

Thanks

**kwikfishron** · 10-06-2011, 11:26 AM

There connected to the wall. Add a block between them if you want.

I see nothing to lose sleep over.

hammerlane · 10-06-2011, 11:37 AM

There are several areas of blocking between the double and triples further back on their span. You can kind of see this by the insulation being "dipped".

Anyway thanks for your time and I'm still trying to get the home inspector to clarify his findings.

Tizzer · 10-06-2011, 04:23 PM

1) One of the rafters lacks a heal joint connection to the ceiling joist at the north side of the main attic area. It is recommended that solid blocking be installed. "
.............
I see this as a rafter not connected/nailed to a ceiling joist on a outside wall issue. All those pictures show no rafters.
If those double & triples stop where the wall below ends, I see no need to try connecting to that ceiling joist you pointed to.
Are the ceiling joists connected to the double/triple using hangers? I don't see how the member can twist without seeing connection gaps.
What are those ridge board vertical supports bearing down on?

**Gary in WA** · 10-06-2011, 10:23 PM

Tizzer is correct, the heel of a rafter sits on the exterior plate, apparently one is not side-nailed to a ceiling joist. The co-axial cable runs through a drilled hole in what appears to be short blocking over the wall.
PS- it's fiberglass batt insulation, not loose-fill fiberglass. The ridge vent is barely usable, cut so narrow- could be my eyes....scab a sistered rafter about 4' long next to the cracked ones.

Gary

hammerlane · 10-07-2011, 08:47 AM

First I added a few more photos at photobucket:

http://s1121.photobucket.com/albums/...now/heeljoint/

That double is resting on a wall below and that triple kind of has something to do with a tray ceiling in the bedroom below.

Tizzer: those ridge board vertical supports are bearing down on other wood components. I am no framing carpenter but I agree with you that where the "doubles" and "triples" are are joists not rafters.

In the preface of the inspection report(which is a new photo) it states:

Items noted for "Review/Repair as Needed" in black refers to a deferred maintenance condition and or component(s) or condition(s) that should be monitored with a possible need for future repairs.

Items noted for "Review/Repair as Needed" in orange are considered to be a defect of functional concern
and or a system/component not performing as intended. The condition(s) and or component(s) should be reviewed and repaired by an appropriate person.

The inspector refers to the term "heal joint" in two places on the report page. Under the Orange Review Repair and under the Black Review Repair. One of the additional photos is a photo of what I think he is referring to under the Orange section and I understand that rafter being twisted is an issue. It is what he is referring to under the black section that is puzzling me.

On the inspection report page the only thing I added were the words INSPECTION REPORT PAGE in red at the top and all the blue arrows and blue lettering. The photos, red arrows on the photos of the inspection page and terminology were all from the inspector.

But in your opinion it looks OK the way this double and triple is terminated in the report photo?

Thanks for the time.

hammerlane · 10-07-2011, 08:57 AM

Gary...see above what I posted to tizzer.

Also nice catch on the insulation reference being batts not loose fill. Even though I wish it was loose fill.

You think a 4 foot long piece sistered to each of the cracked rafters is long enough?

For the twisted rafter at the south side of the attic(see photobucket) just drill a hole thru rafter and joist and pull together with bolt?

Thanks

**Gary in WA** · 10-07-2011, 11:21 PM

Add a sister rafter of the same width (2x8, etc.) 2' longer than the crack ends.

"For the twisted rafter at the south side of the attic(see photobucket) just drill a hole thru rafter and joist and pull together with bolt?"---- that will work. Keep it high not to pull the drywall ceiling fastener to pop.

Gary