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Old 03-26-2011, 02:56 PM   #1
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Hanging Ballet Bars (commercial environment) in metal studs


I didn't realize until after I purchased the ballet bars that our walls were built with metal studs, not 2x4's. I want to install these, but am really worried that the weight of the participants may pull the bars right out of the wall - eventually. Any suggestions on how to make sure they are secured properly and can hold the weight?
Thanks, Kim

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Old 03-26-2011, 05:57 PM   #2
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Hanging Ballet Bars (commercial environment) in metal studs


Cut a long, long horizontal section of the drywall completely out (about 7" wide)... Centered at the height you want your rail.

Install 2x6 backers between each stud.

Add a long, continuious piece of 1/2" plywood over the studs and the backers. Fasten in well.

Now put a long piece of decorative (routed edge) 1x8, or better yet, 1x10, over everything.

Mount your rail brackets wherever you choose on this piece using 2-1/2" #12 or #14 wood screws.

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Old 03-26-2011, 07:43 PM   #3
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Hanging Ballet Bars (commercial environment) in metal studs


Willie T. Good suggestion. My brother-in-law did something similar. But instead he only cut a few places on the wall where he put the mount points.
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Old 03-26-2011, 07:49 PM   #4
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Hanging Ballet Bars (commercial environment) in metal studs


and make sure this is allowed by the landlord if this building is not owned by you.
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Old 03-26-2011, 08:35 PM   #5
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Hanging Ballet Bars (commercial environment) in metal studs


Sort of lost me on this thinking. Why would you assume you gain anything by trying to attach a flat 2x6 and then a layer of plywood to I hope the 4" side of a metal stud and especially without a joist hanger or something? Doesn't this approach just compound your weight stress issues? And what kind of fastener would you use to attach the 2" end of piece of lumber to a 4" metal stud.

Why not just use the studs with appropriate sized metal stud fasteners through the mounting brackets for the ballet bar? Dancers use bars for balance. Any stress the put on a bar is lateral. Anchored with the correct fasteners on center to the metal studs? You don't have to worry.

Get them at a fastener store and not at a Box Store though.
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Old 03-26-2011, 08:44 PM   #6
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Hanging Ballet Bars (commercial environment) in metal studs


Quote:
Originally Posted by nap View Post
and make sure this is allowed by the landlord if this building is not owned by you.
Ditto on this for sure. Especially if you are thinking of somehow taking a power nailer to toenail in 2x6 lumber to a metal stud.

And by the way, getting drywall to line up over plywood on top? Best of luck.
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Old 03-26-2011, 08:48 PM   #7
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Hanging Ballet Bars (commercial environment) in metal studs


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Originally Posted by sdsester View Post
Sort of lost me on this thinking. Why would you assume you gain anything by trying to attach a flat 2x6 and then a layer of plywood to I hope the 4" side of a metal stud and especially without a joist hanger or something? Doesn't this approach just compound your weight stress issues? And what kind of fastener would you use to attach the 2" end of piece of lumber to a 4" metal stud.

Why not just use the studs with appropriate sized metal stud fasteners through the mounting brackets for the ballet bar? Dancers use bars for balance. Any stress the put on a bar is lateral. Anchored with the correct fasteners on center to the metal studs? You don't have to worry.

Get them at a fastener store and not at a Box Store though.
he said to install "backers". That is where you tuck one end of the 2X behind the face of the stud (inside the C section) and end screw the other end of the 2X through the side of the stud. Then, on top of that, he suggested a plywood overlay. That would make a sandwich with the short edge of the stud between the backer and the overlay. That would allow the force from the bar to be supported by a much larger area than a single connection point.
There can be considerable downward and outward forces applied to the bar. Never seen a bar used like this:



multiply that by the number of dancers practicing. Then figure out how much lateral force is applied when they lose their balance and hold onto the bar to keep from falling to the floor.
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Old 03-26-2011, 09:01 PM   #8
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Hanging Ballet Bars (commercial environment) in metal studs


Quote:
Originally Posted by sdsester View Post
Sort of lost me on this thinking. Why would you assume you gain anything by trying to attach a flat 2x6 and then a layer of plywood to I hope the 4" side of a metal stud and especially without a joist hanger or something? Doesn't this approach just compound your weight stress issues? And what kind of fastener would you use to attach the 2" end of piece of lumber to a 4" metal stud.

Why not just use the studs with appropriate sized metal stud fasteners through the mounting brackets for the ballet bar? Dancers use bars for balance. Any stress the put on a bar is lateral. Anchored with the correct fasteners on center to the metal studs? You don't have to worry.

Get them at a fastener store and not at a Box Store though.
Not necessarily a suicidal idea for fastening the rail, but certainly asking for trouble when half a dozen hoofers get their heels hooked over this bar at the same time and start pulling out and down with sweeping, bending motions.

The object of the 2x6's (which are mounted with screws from stud to stud inside the studs - past the back edge of the drywall) is to give deep, solid anchoring for the screws that will attach the bracket flanges. This is super important as this is the 'meat' the bracket screws will bite into.

The addition of 1/2" plywood serves a twofold purpose. First, and most importantly, it helps spread the pull of the rail brackets out over more backers than just the one where a single rail bracket might be fastened.

Secondly, the 1/2" depth brings you back out to be flush with the face of the drywall so that when you fasten the decorative piece of 1x8 or 1x10 you will be mounting it right on top of the original plane of the drywall face surfaces of the surrounding wall. It will end up looking like all you did was fasten the 1x directly to the drywall...... very neat, simple and clean looking.

Didn't notice Nap already answered this, but he probably did a better job than I have.

Drawings and the original SKP file (in case you have SketchUp) are attached below. (Yeah, I know I didn't spell Ballet correctly. )
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Hanging Ballet Bars (commercial environment) in metal studs-balet-1.jpg   Hanging Ballet Bars (commercial environment) in metal studs-balet-2.jpg  
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File Type: skp Balet.skp (311.4 KB, 42 views)
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Old 03-27-2011, 07:42 AM   #9
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Hanging Ballet Bars (commercial environment) in metal studs


Quote:
Originally Posted by Willie T View Post
Not necessarily a suicidal idea for fastening the rail, but certainly asking for trouble when half a dozen hoofers get their heels hooked over this bar at the same time and start pulling out and down with sweeping, bending motions.

The object of the 2x6's (which are mounted with screws from stud to stud inside the studs - past the back edge of the drywall) is to give deep, solid anchoring for the screws that will attach the bracket flanges. This is super important as this is the 'meat' the bracket screws will bite into.

The addition of 1/2" plywood serves a twofold purpose. First, and most importantly, it helps spread the pull of the rail brackets out over more backers than just the one where a single rail bracket might be fastened.

Secondly, the 1/2" depth brings you back out to be flush with the face of the drywall so that when you fasten the decorative piece of 1x8 or 1x10 you will be mounting it right on top of the original plane of the drywall face surfaces of the surrounding wall. It will end up looking like all you did was fasten the 1x directly to the drywall...... very neat, simple and clean looking.

Didn't notice Nap already answered this, but he probably did a better job than I have.

Drawings and the original SKP file (in case you have SketchUp) are attached below. (Yeah, I know I didn't spell Ballet correctly. )

Great drawings, i feel this is the way to go too,it will give you a lot more support for your bar
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Old 03-28-2011, 09:49 AM   #10
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Hanging Ballet Bars (commercial environment) in metal studs


Hello 504branchie my name is George and i work for a Chicago area Home Depot.

Branchie having said that you have a metal stud framing and that this is a commercial space i would hold on on the advice given.

Willie T's solution its great and with no doubt would work just fine but something its left out.

Exterior and partition walls in the space that you are using right may now need to meet some fire rating requirements.

There is a product on the market available thru Dietrich metal framing called Danback.

Danback its made of 3/4" plywood and its available in standard and fire rated sections.
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Old 03-28-2011, 06:19 PM   #11
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Hanging Ballet Bars (commercial environment) in metal studs


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Hello 504branchie my name is George and i work for a Chicago area Home Depot.

Branchie having said that you have a metal stud framing and that this is a commercial space i would hold on on the advice given.

Willie T's solution its great and with no doubt would work just fine but something its left out.

Exterior and partition walls in the space that you are using right may now need to meet some fire rating requirements.

There is a product on the market available thru Dietrich metal framing called Danback.

Danback its made of 3/4" plywood and its available in standard and fire rated sections.

@Steeltoes, the Danback system is pretty slick. Im not so sure it will ever take off in the industry and get big...."Who Knows though"

I would never attach a Ballet Bar on it. I think Wilie's suggestion will be much more secure.

I did find a video for the product.

http://www.danback.com/ddemo.htm
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Old 03-28-2011, 09:04 PM   #12
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Hanging Ballet Bars (commercial environment) in metal studs


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@Steeltoes, the Danback system is pretty slick. Im not so sure it will ever take off in the industry and get big...."Who Knows though"
I know a 658,000 sq ft hospital that used it throughout the building.

http://www.sjmed.com/locations/newhospital/
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Old 03-29-2011, 08:45 AM   #13
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Hanging Ballet Bars (commercial environment) in metal studs


Honestly I can't see Willie's nor Danback product having any issues here.

The only problem you can possibly run in to with WillieBACK product is that they could easily have electrical running behind the section where Ballet bar its suppose to go.

With Willieback product there is no room for the wires so you would have to set the BAR higher...that would also set some new standards in Ballet.

Maybe a good thing…WillieBACK sets new standards in Ballet.

Kool

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