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Old 06-23-2013, 10:02 PM   #1
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Hang bottom of stair stringers below floor with joist hangars?


I'm trying to maximize the headroom under a new flight of stairs (above an existing flight of stairs) in a remodel of an old house. Usually you would set the entire bottom of the first step on the subfloor like this:



But doing so makes the ceiling of the stairway below drop suddenly where the stringers meet the floor joists. I'm wondering if, instead, I could support the stringers from the side of the floor joist using a joist hanger. That would give me more headroom, and would look something like this:



(Only with joist hangers off to the right of the floor joists, instead of the notches shown). Has anyone framed stairs this way?
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Old 06-23-2013, 10:11 PM   #2
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Hang bottom of stair stringers below floor with joist hangars?


Here's another view of what I'm thinking of. I haven't found many other examples online:
http://www.pic.stairs4u.com/splitlev...r_stringer.htm
http://www.pic.stairs4u.com/splitlev...to_landing.htm
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Old 06-23-2013, 10:30 PM   #3
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Hang bottom of stair stringers below floor with joist hangars?


Frankly? Totally stupid. This "method" (if you want to call it that) offers almost NO support in the direction the forces will be exerting themselves.
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Old 06-23-2013, 10:42 PM   #4
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Hang bottom of stair stringers below floor with joist hangars?


Really? The forces are primarily down. Joist hangers can take care of that I would think. I'm more worried about the joist with hangers twisting due to the off-center load, but with a solid joist hanger, the stringers themselves will help that.

Unfortunately I have to come up with a way to increase headroom. The old stairs were grandfathered, but now that I've started renos (started with some minor work on the stair landing), my inspector is demanding that the headroom be increased to meet code (6'6").
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Old 06-23-2013, 10:59 PM   #5
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Hang bottom of stair stringers below floor with joist hangars?


No, the forces are not just down. They are pivoted at the upper stringer attachment, and swing forward, toward that 8' hole... pulling away from those hangers, and progressively drawing the hanger nails slowly out of the lower platform side.
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Old 06-23-2013, 11:08 PM   #6
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Hang bottom of stair stringers below floor with joist hangars?


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Unfortunately I have to come up with a way to increase headroom. The old stairs were grandfathered, but now that I've started renos (started with some minor work on the stair landing), my inspector is demanding that the headroom be increased to meet code (6'6").
About the only way is to cut more out of the top floor, and shift the entire stairs forward.
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Old 06-23-2013, 11:15 PM   #7
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Hang bottom of stair stringers below floor with joist hangars?


I see where you're coming from Willie. But if there were no gap between the hanger and the bottom of the stringer, then there would be no room to rotate before the hanger pulls upward and stops the rotation. Think of it this way. For the bottom of the stringer to rotate outwards (once it is seated on the hanger), The stair opening would have to increase by 1.5" (seems unlikely), or the top of the stringer would have to push upwards. That's not going to happen when the load is pushing down.

In fact, if the upper hanger were slightly loose, there would be a force *into* the lower joist, as the stringer tried to rotate about the bottom hanger. This is why you have to install a "kicker" when setting the stringer on top of the sub floor.

Last edited by nuclearnerd; 06-23-2013 at 11:22 PM.
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Old 06-23-2013, 11:17 PM   #8
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Hang bottom of stair stringers below floor with joist hangars?


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About the only way is to cut more out of the top floor, and shift the entire stairs forward.
There's another floor joist above the upper stairs. If I shift the stairs forward to get headroom below, I loose too much above
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Old 06-23-2013, 11:19 PM   #9
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Hang bottom of stair stringers below floor with joist hangars?


Another option could be to hang the stringer off the stud walls beside (with lag bolts maybe), but I'm even less comfortable about that idea.
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Old 06-24-2013, 06:33 AM   #10
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Hang bottom of stair stringers below floor with joist hangars?


Like the man says, "You'll be walking on it, not me."
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Old 06-24-2013, 08:35 PM   #11
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Hang bottom of stair stringers below floor with joist hangars?


I can't really see because there is a "bleep bleep bleeping" ad for Home Depot right in the middle of the pic but it sounds like you need a hanger board.
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Old 06-24-2013, 09:00 PM   #12
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Hang bottom of stair stringers below floor with joist hangars?


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Unfortunately I have to come up with a way to increase headroom. The old stairs were grandfathered, but now that I've started renos (started with some minor work on the stair landing), my inspector is demanding that the headroom be increased to meet code (6'6").
Your inspector is wrong, as long as you are not reconfiguring the dimensions of the stair-hole the older standards are applied.
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Old 06-24-2013, 09:06 PM   #13
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Hang bottom of stair stringers below floor with joist hangars?


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I can't really see because there is a "bleep bleep bleeping" ad for Home Depot right in the middle of the pic but it sounds like you need a hanger board.
Keith... Could you explain that assembly?? How it's differnet than OP is proposing.

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Old 06-24-2013, 09:12 PM   #14
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Hang bottom of stair stringers below floor with joist hangars?


A hanger board? I thought he was wanting to somehow anchor the BOTTOM, not the TOP.

Hanger boards are at the top, are they not?
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Old 06-24-2013, 09:16 PM   #15
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Hang bottom of stair stringers below floor with joist hangars?


As far as whether the inspector is right or wrong....... well that depends upon the years of repeated hassle you want to set yourself up for.

You can win today's battle, (maybe), but the wounds you will suffer, (repeatedly), for years, is hardly worth it.
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