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rgsgww 02-20-2010 12:00 AM

Found 3 notched joists
 
I found 3 notched joists and am unsure as to how I should approach it. They are notched in the middle of the span. The span is about 10-11ft. The joists are 2x9 and spaced roughly a foot apart. The notches are about an inch deep and 2 1/2 inches long.
Loading is a kitchen floor above and two joists share a 2 car garage door track. The notches are fairly close to where the track is mounted.
Are the notches deep enough that I would be worried?

william duffer 02-20-2010 12:45 AM

It seems as though there must have been something there prior that required the notches, maybe for a garage door track. It doesn't sound like a huge problem. I would check to see if they are already sagging. If they are not I would attach a second piece to them to help prevent them from sagging. But I do Stuff around the house so I have a good excuse for that new tool I absolutely can't live without. If they are I would get one of the gurus on here to help you fix it. A few pics would help.

Dairylander 02-20-2010 04:24 AM

Pull a string line from end to end to see if they've sagged, or use a level to compare them to the other joists, then report back.
The strongest support would be to sister on a second joist but that's usually impossible due to plumbing, ducting, etc. and it's probably unnecessary.
An easier way to beef them up is to rip some plywood the same width as the joist and squeeze the longest piece you can up there. Glue and screw a piece on both sides of the joist and it will be super strong.
An inch is not a deep notch, but a kitchen is a heavy load.
Be sure to compare the sag of these joists to other joists that haven't been notched.
If the notched joists are significantly lower than the others, you could temporarily jack them up with a support post, then laminate on the plywood, and it should help.
If you have a tile kitchen, this will crack the mortar and grout.
2x10 joists that are 12" on center with a 10' span is good construction, so you have that going for you.

rgsgww 02-20-2010 08:01 AM

The kitchen load is mostly just an open space, but I believe an oven might load them. They aren't sagging at all and sound pretty sturdy..no visual problems as far as I can see. What I was planning to do was run electrical through these joists..was going to drill and I found this. Sistering sounds like a good idea but it would be really hard to do considering there are multiple cross braces in each bay, everythings drywalled and insulated.
Anyways...if I run electrical I don't want to weaken it more with holes, should I just use the exsisting notches?

Daniel Holzman 02-20-2010 09:05 AM

Check your local code. Typically, notches are not permitted in the middle third of the span of a joist, so your notches are probably out of code spec. If you no longer need the notches, you can fill them using a carefully cut piece of wood, glue it in place using a strong glue like urethane or one of the yellow aliphatic type glues, and the joist will be almost as strong as it was originally.

Dairylander 02-20-2010 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rgsgww (Post 403088)
if I run electrical I don't want to weaken it more with holes, should I just use the exsisting notches?

No. You never want electrical that close to a finished surface.
Drilling small holes for romex wire in the center of a joist is legal and preferred and won't compromise the strength of the joist at all. Just to be cautious, place the holes a foot or two away from your notches.

forresth 02-20-2010 10:11 AM

the notch in the middle make the whole beam slightly weaker than if it was at the notched thickness the whole way across.
I'd jack it up (if needed) and reinforce it

holes in the middle of the beam aren't that big of a deal.

rgsgww 02-20-2010 10:32 AM

Thanks for all your replies! Apon further inspection there isn't much loading on these 3 joists. The notches aren't that big and no sagging or cracking is going on so I'm going to leave it alone for now.
About running electrical-I swear the code says it's okay as long as a nail guard is installed..I better go read the code up on that.

Gary in WA 02-20-2010 11:12 AM

As Daniel said, replace the notch with material.

http://arch.umd.edu/Tech/Structural_..._Guide_A11.pdf

Be safe, Gary

Robbie245 02-20-2010 11:21 AM

When you cut a notch in a 2x9 joist, it now becomes a 2x8 joist and will onl;y carry the load of a 2x8.

You'll have to check span / load tables to get the answer.


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