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bparise 01-18-2010 10:33 PM

Floor Joist Types (Noise Reduction)
 
We are starting to look into building another home and I have a question about which type of floor joists are best to reduce the sound of walking. More or less, I want to be able to converse with the builder about this, but need some solid arguments before we have any meetings.

Currently, when someone walks around our house on the 2nd floor, you can hear a rather loud/muffled "boom" sound with each footstep (to the point it shakes our chandelier). I've noticed with other homes (as in my parents') that the floors feel solid (almost like concrete slab) and there is virtually no sound.

I know from the framing they did open web trusses 16"OC attached to a LVL (or LSL :)) beam with joist hangers. 3/4" TG Subfloor. Spans are no longer than 14'. If I remember correctly, they are 11" deep.

What kind of floor system is best? Engineered i-josts? Solid lumber? Hangers vs. no hangers.
Could it maybe be cheap (thin) carpet padding?
Furthermore, would it help to bring them into 12" OC?

Thanks for some advice guys!

canyonbc 01-18-2010 11:25 PM

In my experience, I like I Joist the best.

Is the span in your home 14' or your parents 14'???

I think the I Joist any of the company no preference

In my experience we have always set them on top of the 2 x 4 or 2 x 6 framed walls with a rim board

A lot of talk with different contractors and reading sounds like a good adhesive and screw it down.

On the framing jobs I have been on, we have used PL Premium or Sika Flex with a 5/8'' tongue and groove sub floor and then screwed it down

I think a rough idea or the distance though would help.

bparise 01-18-2010 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by canyonbc (Post 385461)
In my experience, I like I Joist the best.

Is the span in your home 14' or your parents 14'???

I think the I Joist any of the company no preference

In my experience we have always set them on top of the 2 x 4 or 2 x 6 framed walls with a rim board

A lot of talk with different contractors and reading sounds like a good adhesive and screw it down.

On the framing jobs I have been on, we have used PL Premium or Sika Flex with a 5/8'' tongue and groove sub floor and then screwed it down

I think a rough idea or the distance though would help.

Our house is 14' spans, not sure what my parents' is. But I do remember last time I was up to visit them, there was a new home going up down the street (from the same builder). Didn't get the chance to walk through because it was an active site but I do remember seeing the engineered i-joists through their garage. I am going to ask my parents to see if they can maybe get some info out of their builder. They paid close to $450k for their home, not sure if that's relevant or not. We paid 1/2 of that :)

Although they did glue our subfloor, the majority of the fasteners are nails. There is a screw about every 16" (actually, pretty random). Already a few squeaky floors (house is only 2 years old) and worse off, you can feel the nails popping up under the flooring in the bathrooms. Ick :) ...

This was our first house, so really a learning experience. The next one, I'm going in fully educated :)

Once we meet with a builder and get some drawings, i'll probably continue this conversation. I want to be able to hold my own and not cave if they are trying to do it a cheaper way.

canyonbc 01-19-2010 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bparise (Post 385463)
Our house is 14' spans, not sure what my parents' is. But I do remember last time I was up to visit them, there was a new home going up down the street (from the same builder). Didn't get the chance to walk through because it was an active site but I do remember seeing the engineered i-joists through their garage. I am going to ask my parents to see if they can maybe get some info out of their builder. They paid close to $450k for their home, not sure if that's relevant or not. We paid 1/2 of that :)

Although they did glue our subfloor, the majority of the fasteners are nails. There is a screw about every 16" (actually, pretty random). Already a few squeaky floors (house is only 2 years old) and worse off, you can feel the nails popping up under the flooring in the bathrooms. Ick :) ...

This was our first house, so really a learning experience. The next one, I'm going in fully educated :)

Once we meet with a builder and get some drawings, i'll probably continue this conversation. I want to be able to hold my own and not cave if they are trying to do it a cheaper way.

Education is key.

If your going to use nails on any sort - Ring Shank is a must.

Is the noise currently a squeek or a deeper pound?

Squeeking in my experience is the nail moving a little bit

When you say coming up in the bathroom is it carpet? Through vinyl?

Hard to say price wise - when they were built, size of home, lay out of home, stories, how much the land was, etc.

I would also recommend reading some books some of the ones I have read and really enjoyed over the years

Rough Framing Carpentry - Mark Currie

Residential Framing: A homebuilders construction guide

Framing - Walls, Floors, Ceiling, - Fine Homebuilding

Hope this helps.

bparise 01-19-2010 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by canyonbc (Post 385478)
Education is key.

If your going to use nails on any sort - Ring Shank is a must.

Is the noise currently a squeek or a deeper pound?

Squeeking in my experience is the nail moving a little bit

When you say coming up in the bathroom is it carpet? Through vinyl?

Hard to say price wise - when they were built, size of home, lay out of home, stories, how much the land was, etc.

I didn't think price was really a factor. Not sure if expensive homes tend to be framed better, or really if it's kind of just standard techniques.

We have a squeaky floor in the hallway (carpeted) and in the bathrooms there is vinyl. As you walk across the bathroom floor you can feel the head of the nail coming up and in a few places its actually starting to wear through it completely.

While were on it... can I fix the squeak without having to pull up the carpet? I came across an article that suggested finish nails through the carpet, but that doesn't seem like it would hold.

And more, pulling up the vinyl would be a disaster to hammer a few nails down. how could i go about fixing this, too?

canyonbc 01-19-2010 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bparise (Post 385482)
I didn't think price was really a factor. Not sure if expensive homes tend to be framed better, or really if it's kind of just standard techniques.

We have a squeaky floor in the hallway (carpeted) and in the bathrooms there is vinyl. As you walk across the bathroom floor you can feel the head of the nail coming up and in a few places its actually starting to wear through it completely.

While were on it... can I fix the squeak without having to pull up the carpet? I came across an article that suggested finish nails through the carpet, but that doesn't seem like it would hold.

And more, pulling up the vinyl would be a disaster to hammer a few nails down. how could i go about fixing this, too?

I think the book was "Rennovation the 3rd edition" maybe be another book I will have to check the library (I really, really enjoy reading) but i remember a section about screwing through the carpet.

I imagine for a fairly low cost not counting the work it will take to move everything off the carpet but pulling up the carpet and screwing it down should not be to bad not sure what it would cost to get a carpet man in there to relay and stretch it

Hope someone else and I am sure in time people will have some other ideas.

Underneath the vinyl no idea at the moment with out ripping it up

stuart45 01-19-2010 06:25 AM

Our Building Regs for new builds mean that the floors must be sound proofed as shown here.
http://www.customaudiodesigns.co.uk/...g/underlay.htm

bparise 01-19-2010 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stuart45 (Post 385519)
Our Building Regs for new builds mean that the floors must be sound proofed as shown here.
http://www.customaudiodesigns.co.uk/...g/underlay.htm

Wow, this is required for a single-family residence? Do you know, off the top of your head, the extra cost/sqft of installing soundproofing like this?

bparise 01-19-2010 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by canyonbc (Post 385488)
I think the book was "Rennovation the 3rd edition" maybe be another book I will have to check the library (I really, really enjoy reading) but i remember a section about screwing through the carpet.

I imagine for a fairly low cost not counting the work it will take to move everything off the carpet but pulling up the carpet and screwing it down should not be to bad not sure what it would cost to get a carpet man in there to relay and stretch it

Hope someone else and I am sure in time people will have some other ideas.

Underneath the vinyl no idea at the moment with out ripping it up

The vinyl actually shouldnt be a problem, now that I think of it. It's only edge-glued and covered with quarter-round at the baseboards. The carpet, I came across this:

http://www.improvementscatalog.com/h...epair-kit.html

No way in hell I am paying $30 for it, but I wonder if the same could be achieved using some narrow screws (like http://www.grkfasteners.com/en/TRIM_0_information.htm)

stuart45 01-19-2010 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bparise (Post 385606)
Wow, this is required for a single-family residence? Yes, it is for this.
Do you know, off the top of your head, the extra cost/sqft of installing soundproofing like this?

Sorry, I'm a bricklayer so am out of my comfort zone here, but will try and find out for you. I know the acoustic insulation is about 40 metre2.
This system is designed for both impact and airbourne sound. If it's just impact sound you want to reduce the 10mm underlay may help.

bparise 01-19-2010 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stuart45 (Post 385773)
Sorry, I'm a bricklayer so am out of my comfort zone here, but will try and find out for you. I know the acoustic insulation is about 40 metre2.
This system is designed for both impact and airbourne sound. If it's just impact sound you want to reduce the 10mm underlay may help.

Please don't go out of your way to find a cost! I was just curious if you had a quote in mind. For some reason, the impact sound really bothers me. It makes the house sound and feel very cheap. I am trying to figure out my options that are most cost effective.

Thanks for your input!


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