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Old 03-05-2013, 07:59 AM   #1
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Fasteners to use with Cedar Shakes over 1" Ext Insulation


My wall composition will be: 2x6 studs, 1/2" plywood, 1" IKO Enerfoil (R7), perhaps a breathing mesh? and Cedar Shakes/Shingles. I'm wondering what you folks recommend for a fastener (length/type)? I was thinking 2" staples with a 7/16" crown...

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Old 03-05-2013, 08:16 AM   #2
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Fasteners to use with Cedar Shakes over 1" Ext Insulation


Back before nail guns we used hardboard siding nails and if I was installing with the situation you have I still would. With a nail gun you have to be careful to get the pressure just right or set the plunger just right or the staple will go through the shake, same with trim nails. I do agree if you can get the gun set right a staple would hold better but if the shakes are going over the insulation the gun would be iffy IMHO.

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Old 03-05-2013, 08:24 AM   #3
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Fasteners to use with Cedar Shakes over 1" Ext Insulation


Cedar Shakes/Shingles require stainless steel or hot dipped galvanized steel fasteners!

Last edited by Hardway; 03-05-2013 at 08:27 AM.
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:44 AM   #4
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Fasteners to use with Cedar Shakes over 1" Ext Insulation


If not your going to have black marks running down the wall.

This is what I use for shakes, James Hardee, wooden fencing ECT.
The nails have small heads and are ring shanked and near imposible to pull out once driven in.
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Old 03-05-2013, 02:53 PM   #5
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Fasteners to use with Cedar Shakes over 1" Ext Insulation


you cant install shingles or shakes directly over foam. you have to sheath over the foam with plywood or osb before the shingles go on if you want them to stay on the wall..

diddo about the stainless steel. all we use for cedar is ss ring nails in siding nailers, along with pine clapboard, canexel siding and fibre cement
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Old 03-05-2013, 03:10 PM   #6
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Fasteners to use with Cedar Shakes over 1" Ext Insulation


Photo 4; http://www.buildingscience.com/docum...d%20in%20walls

Spacer mat; http://www.jlconline.com/coastal-con...-shingles.aspx

Where do you live that you require the PIC (foil-faced)? It is a vapor barrier, do you already a vapor barrier/retarder next to drywall?

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Old 03-05-2013, 03:21 PM   #7
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Fasteners to use with Cedar Shakes over 1" Ext Insulation


Ss siding coil nails are great only issue I have is the coil is not stainless so I've seen them still leave streaks down but still best way available
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Old 03-05-2013, 03:32 PM   #8
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Fasteners to use with Cedar Shakes over 1" Ext Insulation


Use SIP panels instead and get rid of all the issues.
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Old 03-05-2013, 06:15 PM   #9
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Fasteners to use with Cedar Shakes over 1" Ext Insulation


very little of the coil strip is left on the nail when its shot anyway.. so its not enough to really matter. im located on the coast where salt water effects fasteners severely .. using galvys is just a recipe for disaster though
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Old 03-05-2013, 07:16 PM   #10
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Fasteners to use with Cedar Shakes over 1" Ext Insulation


Way back when I did this with my dad we used galvanized nails with domed heads which countersunk into the shakes.

You did not say where you are from, but I would not put foil on the cold side of the insulation if you are in a cold area. You could be creating a monster re dew point. You want one vapor barrier/retarder on the warm side stick in a few more and you are asking for trouble.
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:04 PM   #11
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Fasteners to use with Cedar Shakes over 1" Ext Insulation


the domed head nails you used were for clapboard siding and are meant for face nailing.. cedar shingles should be nailed with ring nails or box nails which dont protrude from the face of hte shingle
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Old 03-06-2013, 01:19 PM   #12
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Fasteners to use with Cedar Shakes over 1" Ext Insulation


Thanks for all the replies folks. I am from Prince Edward Island, Canada. We have a maritime climate which can get cold in the winter but fluctuates all the time.

I have decided that I will not even bother going with the 1" foam on the exterior since (from what I've read) it won't be enough to protect the plywood against moisture/condensation because of my 2x6 insulated wall on the inside.

I will go with this composition: (from inside out) Paint, drywall, vapor barrier, batt insulation, 1/2" plywood, Tyvek housewrap, some sort of breather/spacer/rain screen, and my cedar shingles. I will not have the extra R6 from the polyiso but since it's not enough anyways, and we can't really afford the extra R15 (which is necessary to keep plywood warm in my climate), we will go without. Saving $3 or $4k on rigid foam will go a long way toward the heating costs anyway.

Are there any other solutions to eliminate heat loss from thermal bridging? I know about stagger stud, and those methods but am not necessarily interested in going that route.

Thanks
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Old 03-06-2013, 03:32 PM   #13
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Fasteners to use with Cedar Shakes over 1" Ext Insulation


for rain screen for the shingles you will need to use homeslicker or lattice. just make sure the shingles dont come in direct contact with the tyvek as the oil in cedar will react adversely with the tyvek rendering it useless for keeping water out
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Old 03-06-2013, 07:16 PM   #14
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"Are there any other solutions to eliminate heat loss from thermal bridging? I know about stagger stud, and those methods but am not necessarily interested in going that route."--------------------- add some 1-1/2" wide strips ripped from 1/2" XPS to cover the studs/plates. Or thicker as wood is r-1.25 per inch... use Roxul rather than R-19 (low density) fiberglass inherent with convective loops; http://www.buildingscience.com/docum...ce-insulation/

Air-seal the plywood/framing joints against infiltration/exfiltration (IMO even with air barrier;laps taped, Tyvek); pp. 21;http://www.engr.psu.edu/phrc/trainin...ngbarriers.pdf

If accessible, foam the rims.

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Old 03-07-2013, 07:11 AM   #15
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Good tips Gary, thanks

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