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Old 02-14-2011, 10:55 PM   #1
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doug fir post for stairs on basement concrete


ok just bought 3700 bucks worth of doug fir to build stairs to loft and down into basement..

had a crazy thought..the doug fir posts for the landings will be on the cement basement floor...I know I can use brackets to secure em..question is..what about the moisture?

Should I use a moisture barrier like 15# felt paper between the concrete/cement floor and the doug fir? Dont want rotting wood supporting my stairs in 20 years!

Another question..can i just toenail the posts into the concrete or do I need metal brackets?

Let me know what you guys suggest!
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Old 02-14-2011, 11:25 PM   #2
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doug fir post for stairs on basement concrete


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Originally Posted by chulett View Post
ok just bought 3700 bucks worth of doug fir to build stairs to loft and down into basement..

had a crazy thought..the doug fir posts for the landings will be on the cement basement floor...I know I can use brackets to secure em..question is..what about the moisture?

Should I use a moisture barrier like 15# felt paper between the concrete/cement floor and the doug fir? Dont want rotting wood supporting my stairs in 20 years!

Another question..can i just toenail the posts into the concrete or do I need metal brackets?

Let me know what you guys suggest!
You can get a standoff post base. And anchor it to the concrete. They're ugly but you could paint them black or find a place that would sell "pretty" ones (a place that sells timber framing supplies) but they likely won't be cheap.

Or use sill gasket and some other fastening method. Not fond of toe-nailing, but somebody else will probably come along with a good idea.

forget felt-paper.
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Last edited by fungku; 02-14-2011 at 11:28 PM.
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Old 02-14-2011, 11:29 PM   #3
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doug fir post for stairs on basement concrete


Technically, your posts should not contact the concrete directly. Simpson or USP elevated post brackets would be a good fix, albeit probable overkill for an interior situation. Better safe than sorry.

No, toe-nailing wood into concrete isn't going to make for a reliable or professional connection. The brackets bolt into the concrete and stand the posts up about an inch off the floor. That's the way I'd go.
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Old 02-14-2011, 11:37 PM   #4
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Asphalt roof shingle, 6mil. plastic, the problem will be resisting the sideways push required by your local B.D. Here is an older Code; A few of the measurements here may have changed: http://www.staircraft.com/R311%20&%2...he%2003IRC.pdf


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Old 02-14-2011, 11:51 PM   #5
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doug fir post for stairs on basement concrete


wow!

thanks for the fast reply..gonna pick up lumber tomorrow..ok so no felt paper!

post brackets sound good..when basement is finished will cover with wood trim over brackets. so no moisture barrier needed?

These post gonna be 4x6 doug fir and I dont wanna mess up!

thanks again
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Old 02-15-2011, 11:16 AM   #6
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post brackets sound good..when basement is finished will cover with wood trim over brackets. so no moisture barrier needed?
they should have a 1" stand-off
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Old 02-15-2011, 12:12 PM   #7
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doug fir post for stairs on basement concrete


what about if you drilled a hole in the basement floor and epoxied in some all-thread (of a substantial size) placed nut and washer (washer on the top side resting on the nut). Drilled the bottom of you posts to accept the all-thread.. now you will be off of the concrete floor, posts will not move laterally AND you can adjust your posts for level (if needed).

not sure if would meet code, but this would be totally hidden and should work.

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Old 02-15-2011, 12:25 PM   #8
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doug fir post for stairs on basement concrete


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what about if you drilled a hole in the basement floor and epoxied in some all-thread (of a substantial size) placed nut and washer (washer on the top side resting on the nut). Drilled the bottom of you posts to accept the all-thread.. now you will be off of the concrete floor, posts will not move laterally AND you can adjust your posts for level (if needed).

not sure if would meet code, but this would be totally hidden and should work.

rod
I would think this would cause the washer to embed into the post and although it provides for lateral stability, it's not really attaching the post to the floor as I see it.

I would do as you said with the threaded rod, then secure a simpson post base to it with a washer and a nut.

Then do as you said, find some sort of trim to cover the post base and pretty it up. Yeah, it may be overkill for interior purposes, but we're only talking about a couple of bucks here.

I definitely wouldn't an posts on bare concrete, they should be raised up.

I wish the guy that built my deck new that....the putz actually encased the bottom of the 4x6 posts directly in the concrete...as in, poured a concrete slab around the posts on the first floor. That happened long before I moved in
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Old 02-15-2011, 12:33 PM   #9
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doug fir post for stairs on basement concrete


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I would think this would cause the washer to embed into the post and although it provides for lateral stability, it's not really attaching the post to the floor as I see it.
I was simply figuring that the pure weight of the staircase, once completed would keep everything securely planted on the all-thread.

also, you could use use a plate welded/or resting on the nut. how tall are these posts?? could you weld a plate to the nut and then fasten the plate to the bottom of the posts, then screw them onto the all-thread?? then build the rest of your stairs around the posts??

just thinking out-loud here, so apologize if i am rambling.

rod
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Old 02-15-2011, 07:53 PM   #10
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doug fir post for stairs on basement concrete


just unloaded the doug fir! They are HEAVY! GREEN WOOD! The timberframe home I have was green going up, just wondering if the 4x6 posts and the 4x12 stringers and 4x10 treads will squeak when they dry? I doubt it. Any thoughts?

Also, do i really need to secure into the concrete? I like the idea of the simpson post brackets or usp elevated brackets..I will research em..guy helping me said not to worry about putting the doug fir on the concrete said it will be ok...Im like you...overkill not bad in certain situations!

The weight of the stairs should hold the posts in place I would think
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Old 02-15-2011, 08:01 PM   #11
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doug fir post for stairs on basement concrete


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Originally Posted by chulett View Post
just unloaded the doug fir! They are HEAVY! GREEN WOOD! The timberframe home I have was green going up, just wondering if the 4x6 posts and the 4x12 stringers and 4x10 treads will squeak when they dry? I doubt it. Any thoughts?
Wood will shrink when it dries. Radially and tangentially. (i.e. every direction but along the length). If you nail them down and they shrink then the nails won't be nailed down tight and the boards can move up and down on the nail shafts... = squeaking.

Quote:
Also, do i really need to secure into the concrete? I like the idea of the simpson post brackets or usp elevated brackets..I will research em..guy helping me said not to worry about putting the doug fir on the concrete said it will be ok...Im like you...overkill not bad in certain situations!
We never put untreated wood in direct contact with concrete.
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Old 02-15-2011, 08:15 PM   #12
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doug fir post for stairs on basement concrete


Incorporate the post into the tread/riser intersection to give you you the most bearing.

Do NOT rely on the post/floor connection for rigidity of the post.
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Old 02-15-2011, 08:23 PM   #13
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doug fir post for stairs on basement concrete


not using open stringers..using closed stringer system gonna route out stringers for the treads..counter sink the screws on the sides and plug with dowel rod to mimmick the look of the timber frame..I attached photo of what the stairs should look like..hopefully they wont squeak!

I will use metal brackets between the wood posts and the concrete...do they need to 1" off concrete or can the wood post rest on bracket on the concrete..please excuse my ignorance as I have to look up the brackets to get my brain round it!
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Old 02-15-2011, 08:31 PM   #14
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doug fir post for stairs on basement concrete


tcleve4911....thinking thats the way we are going to do it..thanks for your input!

for the spindles..are going to take four 1/2 rebars and wield together! (after cleaning and then paint em with oil rubbed bronze rust oleum) should look good gonna use doug fir 2x4 for hand rails..gonna be a heavy stair system
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Old 02-15-2011, 08:32 PM   #15
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Any non-permeable material will work between the post and the concrete.
Cut a flat section out of a food container, a scrap of Ice & water shield.

It would be a good idea to seal the bottom of the post with poly or some other finish that you are going to use on the post finish.
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