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Old 12-13-2007, 02:36 PM   #1
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Door frame against stone wall


Hi,

I'm looking for the best method of filling the space between a wooden door frame and a solid stone and mortar wall. The door is an exterior, triple french door (two opening doors and one fixed). The fixed panel is against the stone wall. The top jamb is secured thoroughly to a steel I-beam header and the sill is secured to the concrete slab.

Securing the jamb is not too much of an issue (I think I can get a couple of screws into the mortar of the stone wall). What I'm less sure of is how to fill in the void between the jamb and the stone. It needs to be water-tight and I'd like as much insulation value as I can get. Also, cosmetically, the surface needs to be mortar or some type of cement, to match with the stone wall.

The problem is that the void is up to 2 inches wide and the jamb is 6 inches. I'm concerned that a concrete product will shrink to the point that I don't get a water-tight seal (and then the wood frame will begin to rot). I'm considering using an expandable foam to fill the interior and then putting some metal screen (like that used for stucco) into the rest of the gap and putting a surface coat of mortar (maybe 3/4 inch of mortar or so on each exposed side). Would this work? Or is there a better solution?

-- Bill

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Old 12-13-2007, 03:23 PM   #2
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Door frame against stone wall


Normally you would put brick mold on the outside to cover the gap bewtween the door frame and the brick wall.. Then caulk for the weather seal.

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Old 12-13-2007, 04:15 PM   #3
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Door frame against stone wall


Thanks for your response Sammy. I wish that I could make brick moulding work. However, this is a custom mid-century modern house (built 1960) and the way inwhich the entire door, stone wall, and I-beam header all meet is very unusual.

To put it as simply as possible, the stone wall extends 5 or 6 inches beyond the outside surface of the door frame (in other words, the stone wall is about 12" thick and the door frame, by design, is 6 inches). The door frame actually extends about 1.5 inches beyond the flange of the I-beam header (the header is exposed to the weather, painted white). So the 1.5 inches of the top jamb is exposed to the weather (of course this has to be flashed and sealed). So, normal trim applications won't work in this case (plus, asthetically it wouldn't fit with the rest of the house).

Any other suggestions? I hope someone has a creative and hopefully weather tight means of making this work. Of course, I know that many of Frank Lloyd Wrights designs were notoriously leaky (my house isn't one of his, but it clearly has some Wright influences).

-- Bill
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Old 12-13-2007, 04:19 PM   #4
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Door frame against stone wall


Can you post some pictures?
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Old 12-13-2007, 04:45 PM   #5
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Door frame against stone wall


Might try a local contractor yard that does stone work. They may have either a block trim or a simulated piece that can cover your gap.
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Old 12-13-2007, 07:06 PM   #6
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Door frame against stone wall


I'll get some photos posted tomorrow. Thanks both to Perpetual and Sammy for such fast responses.

-- Bill
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Old 12-13-2007, 07:25 PM   #7
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Your welcome
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Old 12-14-2007, 12:53 AM   #8
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Door frame against stone wall


Tricky situations call for tricky measures, I've used door and window foam insulation on many occasions. That would fill the void. Talk to your local home depot or Lowes, you could use a mortar mix to finish it off. If it hasn't already got it, use a bonding additive to ensure adhesion to existing concrete. Make sure you buy non-shrink mortar and you should be fine. Don't foam out any more than you have to, that way you'll be able to fill plenty mortar to ensure it's not going to drop out.
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Old 12-14-2007, 05:03 PM   #9
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Door frame against stone wall


I have worked with this problem door jamb before. You need to fill the void with mortar and make sure in doing so you do not bow the frame inward. This is accomplished by cutting seperators to keep the jamb spread while the mud goes in and sets up. One at the bottom and two up the middle area. To keep the mud from oozing out the sides you must put some ply or 1x on the face and probably scribe them to fit the contour of the stone. Screw them to the jamb leaving them short at the top enough to use a scoop to put the mud in at the top. As you fill tap the jamb to help the mud settle. Prior to pouring run some screws through the jamb on the hinge side that will be embedded in the mud, or you could screw some 2x material in the void area that you will later add more screws to. Fill them up and the next day take them off and fill the area at the top you could not fill initially. The mortar will look better than any other product on a stone face and you can touch it up with more mortar when you are finished. Good luck.

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