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-   -   are deck screws enough to stop a kick in? (http://www.diychatroom.com/f14/deck-screws-enough-stop-kick-118580/)

Tonglebeak 09-28-2011 01:13 PM

are deck screws enough to stop a kick in?
 
I bought a $60 lockset from HD. The "kwikset signature series" came with a door knob and deadbolt, with a Grade 1 label. The strike plate that came with the deadbolt is massive compared to others I've seen, and they included 3 inch wood screws. However, the only screws that ever bite into wood around this house are 3" deck screws I have (100+ year old house, hard as rock wood). The hinge sides are secured with them, which is attached to a rough cut 6 x 6 (Yeah, a 6 x 6 next a door. :)) The strike plates are attached to a double rough-cut 2x6 with deck screws. Would this be sufficient to prevent a kick in? The door is set towards the front of the 2x6s, so there's a good 4-5 inches of wood in front of the screws, to take the force. I would guess that the failing point would be the screws themselves.

BigJim 09-28-2011 01:32 PM

Looks to me like they would tear the door up before that would give.

Bud Cline 09-28-2011 01:44 PM

Go ahead and use the screws then kick the door in and see if they worked.:)

Report back so we'll know in the future.:)

Clutchcargo 09-28-2011 02:30 PM

Just make sure there are no spaces between the framing and hinges and strike plate. That will keep anyone from pry barring their way in. Avoiding a kick-in is only as strong as the door jamb itself.

Bud Cline 09-28-2011 02:37 PM

Quote:

Avoiding a kick-in is only as strong as the door jamb itself.
...and the door!:)

You should see what a door-ram does to a wooden door when the cops want in bad enough. The door jambs are rarely effected. It all happens with great force and the jambs don't have time to think about being damaged.:) Sometimes cops error on the side of stupidity and have to pay for a door replacement.:)

Leah Frances 09-28-2011 03:15 PM

I also have bone dry old timber in my house (though mine is 200 years old :whistling2:); I can't drive a 3 inch screw all the way in some of my wood without stripping the head or snapping it clean off.

Easy solution: pre-drill then drive. :thumbup:

Tonglebeak 09-28-2011 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leah Frances (Post 737706)
I also have bone dry old timber in my house (though mine is 200 years old :whistling2:); I can't drive a 3 inch screw all the way in some of my wood without stripping the head or snapping it clean off.

Easy solution: pre-drill then drive. :thumbup:

Yeah, I've found if it's not square head, it's not going in.

woodworkbykirk 09-28-2011 08:08 PM

using a longer screw provides for a better bite in the wood both for the deadbolt strike plate and the hinges. canadian code specifically states the screw MUST penetrate a minimum of one inch into the framing to be secure..

for driving the screw though, you will need to drill pilot holes first, use a drill bit the same diameter as the shank of the screw " the inner portion of hte screw between the theads. if thats still too tight go up a size by 1/64 and even put some liquid soap detergent on the screw it will lubricate it so the screw goes in easier

in regards to the security though, if they want in they can get in it just depends on how badly they want to... but also realize the more expensive the dooor and is frame the more durable it will be. a $200 door takes far less effort to break into than a $1500 one, same goes for the lockset

Justgaff 10-08-2011 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tonglebeak

Yeah, I've found if it's not square head, it's not going in.

I have a small pringles can that I smashed a (toilet) ring of beeswax into that I keep with my screw selection. Stick the screw into the wax before using and it makes the screws go in like butter.

Impatient 10-09-2011 08:15 PM

Don't forget to use longer screws on the hinge side, too. I've seen a door kicked in on the hinge side after the strike plate was reinforced.

Of course, they can always break a window...

yeag6154 10-14-2011 09:24 AM

Long deck screws are what I use for exterior doors. They are strong and weather resistant. Be sure to install at least one long screw in each hinge (jamb side) to prevent a weak spot for kick in. If the dead bolt is going into the 6 x 6 then I'd like to see the person that could kick that in.

Orangeclawhamme 10-17-2011 10:57 PM

As a member of our local fire department, there are few doors that cannot be accessed quickly by using a flat head axe and a hand tool called a halligan. Even metal doors can be pried from their jambs, deadbolts and all.

As a locksmith for 20+ years, anything made by kwikset is a marginal product that barely gets the job done. I am sure being sold by home depot, it is even worse. Sorry, but my opinion. It is actually easier to pick those locks than to kick them in. Most petty thugs aren't good at picking locks, but they do have feet.

What are you trying to accomplish? To slow someone down or to prevent entry all together? Preventing is impossible unless you live in a bunker, even then. My suggestion would be one of those 4-way bar locks. It essentially creates a barricade that would be plenty robust yet can still be opened from the outside, do not buy this from home depot, get it from a locksmith.

My next suggestion would be a gun. Remington 870 sawed off 18" barrel. If nothing else, as these guys are kicking in the door, you can cycle the action and really get their attention, it is a VERY distinct sound. I am sure they will think twice before putting their foot on your door again if they know it could possibly get blown off (just make sure little hands can't get on it). Dogs work well for this purpose too, a big dog that is, and an alarm system if you are really worried. Dogs are probably the best solution of all if you are looking to protect you stuff.

Ed911 10-21-2011 03:44 PM

I guess, from the sound of it...that you are trying to stop a home invasion.

Here's my experience with locked doors back in the 80's...locksmith comes over...tries to pick lock on front door...after 15 minutes using a quick-pick...turns to me and says, "I'll discount you the price of your lock set." He then takes out a hammer...knocks the crap out of the door handle, defeating the lockset...and then proceeds to turn the remnants of the door knob and walks in. Time to defeat door lock...15 seconds...time to entry...45 seconds. Door undamaged, striker plate and wood on door frame undamaged...discount, $20.00. Look on my face, priceless.

Most home door locks are pot metal inside...even dead bolts. They can't stand up to a hammer blow. Hit them and they crack and break. Once this is done, it's easy to retract the locking bolt. And there you have it...entry.

Yep, I too use three inch screws...drywall, deck, or GripRite exterior, self drilling star drive...currently my favorite.

Just a little anecdote...

Willie T 10-21-2011 10:05 PM

You do know most guys are going to simply use a "bump key" these days.

Ed911 10-21-2011 10:34 PM

Yeah, forgot about those...used a lot with stolen cars. In reference to the OP...what kind of lock would be best for his purposes? Longer screws will keep out the dumb ones, but as with everything like it is today, securtiy is a complex issue.


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