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Old 06-25-2007, 05:46 PM   #16
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deck - beam to post connection (??)


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Originally Posted by KUI****G View Post
With WNYCarpenter explanation, now looks like you should go with option 3 which is sandwiched beam/post... with empty inner beam... then you can solve your extended posts issue, footing being too high...etc. issue... it make sense to me... may be you need to go back to HD to get those long bolts again...
I think I now own every freakn' 7" and 6" galvanized carriage bolt at my home depot...I cleaned them out. Here is the "plan".....

I can't get a wider beam because the grade will not allow for it at the highest point. (I might be able to squeeze in a 2x8 but the lower 1inch or so would be in the dirt...I could excavate..but I already have piers). 2ndly I just bought a sheet of 4x8 PT plywood to use as spacers for my built up beam for option 2. (HD didn't have anything smaller and wouldn't offer....so if anyone needs 3x7 piece of PT plywood let me know ).

Here goes nothing.....now where did I put my hammer...

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Old 06-26-2007, 09:46 AM   #17
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deck - beam to post connection (??)


Since you are attaching your joists to the beam (with joist hangers I assume), sandwiching the post will do you no good. Your option of combining your beam together and then sitting that on the pier should work fine.

If you need to build a couple of piers up just an inch or so, you can shave some shims out of treated 4x4 or use composite shims. If you have to go much higher than an inch or two, I would suggest constructing an actual post for which the beam will sit on.

It sounds like you have a good plan.
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Old 06-26-2007, 09:54 AM   #18
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deck - beam to post connection (??)


Good to hear you are get moving... as usual... many ways will work... give us some pictures when its done...
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Old 04-20-2011, 05:36 PM   #19
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deck - beam to post connection (??)


Just my 2 cents, if you are worried about stubby posts inside the anchor ... why not just use concrete inside the anchor to boost the pier up to the correct size? So if you are doing what is shown in picture #2, then why does the shim have to be wood, if you are afraid it will fail? Just pour up to the height where the beam would sit.

Also on the point of stubby posts .... a lot of pre-formed concrete piers come with a piece of wood nailed to the top. Posts or post anchors then get attached to that little piece of wood... why would that wood (which is like a cut off piece of 2x6, with grain running horizontally) be able to be "strong enough" and yet a little stubby shim/post would not be?
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Old 05-11-2011, 02:56 PM   #20
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deck - beam to post connection (??)


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Just my 2 cents, if you are worried about stubby posts inside the anchor ... why not just use concrete inside the anchor to boost the pier up to the correct size? So if you are doing what is shown in picture #2, then why does the shim have to be wood, if you are afraid it will fail? Just pour up to the height where the beam would sit.

Also on the point of stubby posts .... a lot of pre-formed concrete piers come with a piece of wood nailed to the top. Posts or post anchors then get attached to that little piece of wood... why would that wood (which is like a cut off piece of 2x6, with grain running horizontally) be able to be "strong enough" and yet a little stubby shim/post would not be?
The problem is that the OP is using a bracket that was designed only for posts, with the intent of it supporting a beam, and a short shim/post in zome combination. Every idea presented in this thread is a problem and likely would not pass code inspection, as this is a misuse of the bracket.

Planning avoids having to ask how to get out of the corner you've painted yourself into. Happens to all of us, I'm certainly no exception. It's often better to simply admit defeat, rip out the old wrong work and do it right. I've gone both ways, and often tearout/redo still turns out to be faster and cheaper than continuing down the kludge path...
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Old 05-11-2011, 05:23 PM   #21
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deck - beam to post connection (??)


It is a bit curious that the deck design books you read use techniques which are not acceptable under the IRC 2005 and later design standards. In my town, we use the IRC 2008 deck design standards, and the town gives you a copy of "Design for Code Acceptance" when you submit your deck plans. Here a couple of items off the IRC rules that your design violates:

1. All posts must be a minimum of 6x6. This allows them to be notched to accept beams. The only acceptable technique in IRC for attaching a beam to a post is to notch the post full width of the beam, or use a bracket designed to allow the beam to sit on top of the posts. Side by side attachment using bolts is specifically prohibited, as is attachment of a doubled beam to the post using bolts or lag screws.

2. Posts are not permitted to be installed directly on top of concrete. They are required to be installed using a standoff galvanized bracket. Similarly, beams cannot sit directly on a concrete pier. This is to prevent rot of the post due to contact with water on the top of the pier.

In your case, it may be impractical to redesign the setup, but you may want to check with your building inspector first, if you have a building inspector. It is possible to install a new standoff bracket in an existing concrete pier if the pier is sufficiently large, and you could then install 6x6 piers notched to accept the beams. Or perhaps there is no code in your jurisdiction, in which case you are presumably free to come up with an alternative approach.
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Old 05-11-2011, 08:39 PM   #22
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deck - beam to post connection (??)


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Originally Posted by Daniel Holzman View Post
It is a bit curious that the deck design books you read use techniques which are not acceptable under the IRC 2005 and later design standards. In my town, we use the IRC 2008 deck design standards, and the town gives you a copy of "Design for Code Acceptance" when you submit your deck plans. Here a couple of items off the IRC rules that your design violates:

1. All posts must be a minimum of 6x6. This allows them to be notched to accept beams. The only acceptable technique in IRC for attaching a beam to a post is to notch the post full width of the beam, or use a bracket designed to allow the beam to sit on top of the posts. Side by side attachment using bolts is specifically prohibited, as is attachment of a doubled beam to the post using bolts or lag screws.

2. Posts are not permitted to be installed directly on top of concrete. They are required to be installed using a standoff galvanized bracket. Similarly, beams cannot sit directly on a concrete pier. This is to prevent rot of the post due to contact with water on the top of the pier.

In your case, it may be impractical to redesign the setup, but you may want to check with your building inspector first, if you have a building inspector. It is possible to install a new standoff bracket in an existing concrete pier if the pier is sufficiently large, and you could then install 6x6 piers notched to accept the beams. Or perhaps there is no code in your jurisdiction, in which case you are presumably free to come up with an alternative approach.
Point #1 is not entirely accurate. While bolts alone are prohibited, other hardware exists that is acceptable and economical. Simpson DJT14Z Deck Joist Ties are IRC 2009 compliant, and allow attachment of a 2x beam or joist to the side of a post. I have used them with inspection acceptance to augment existing installations for additional loads (converting a deck to a porch) as well as new construction for support beams. The load capacity is not enormous (1400lb maximum w/bolts, 1100 w/nails for floor support) but is adequate for many deck designs.

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