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Old 01-11-2012, 12:57 AM   #16
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Crown Molding install question


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Originally Posted by petros151

boy this is really confusing.

at first I was looking at the molding I have and I put the rippled part up and the scooped part down. But I looked at some pics of cabinet molding and they all had the ripple part DOWN and the scooped part up.

Which is the usual way? I kind of liked the rippled part UP myself

THANKS!!!!
Check the spring angle of your moulding. If it's sprung at 45 degrees (meaning that the angle of the hypotenuse of the moulding leaves both ceiling and wall at a 45-degree angle), then put it up in the way that pleases you best.

That having been said... Some crown moulding has a spring angle of 38 degrees (meaning that the other angle is 52, since the third angle is 90, and the sum of the angles of a triangle is 180). One easy way to check, absent a good protractor or angle-finder) is that if you put it on "upside down," it will stick out away from the face of he cabinet MORE than it will rise up from the top edge of the cabinet.

Kind of difficult to articulate, but try holding up a 30/60/90 triangle in each of the two configurations possible, and you'll be able to visualize this, better...

Again, like the 45-sprung, it's all a matter of what appeals to you -- but going for "height" rather than "face projection" tends to give the most aesthetic lines...

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Old 01-11-2012, 08:57 AM   #17
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Crown Molding install question


Which edge goes up and which edge goes down has long been a matter for dispute. But design balance usually indicates that the heavier (or heavier looking... or more ornate and busy) part of any installation goes toward the bottom. (see the picture below)

In our neck of the woods, almost all the crown jobs are installed just like your drawings show.

If you install contrary to the preferred or accepted way in your locale, you WILL hear about it.... and maybe even have to flip it over.

Check first with your customer, (your wife?) and make sure they understand how you intend to install. If it's your own job, then all you'll have to deal with is critics who are drinking your beer anyway.

There is a corollary to this "Locally preferred" thing in Bi-Fold doors.
The CORRECT way to mount the knobs is on the outer panels, the ones with the jamb hinges.

But many people in some areas have seen it done with the knobs mounted on the center panels for so long that they believe this is the correct way. And they insist that you put the knobs on the two inside (center) door panels. Hence, we constnantly have to go back to repair Bi-Fold doors that have frustrated someone so badly that they finally yanked them right out of the frames.
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Old 01-11-2012, 12:10 PM   #18
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Crown Molding install question


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Which edge goes up and which edge goes down has long been a matter for dispute. But design balance usually indicates that the heavier (or heavier looking... or more ornate and busy) part of any installation goes toward the bottom. (see the picture below)

In our neck of the woods, almost all the crown jobs are installed just like your drawings show.

If you install contrary to the preferred or accepted way in your locale, you WILL hear about it.... and maybe even have to flip it over.

Check first with your customer, (your wife?) and make sure they understand how you intend to install. If it's your own job, then all you'll have to deal with is critics who are drinking your beer anyway.

There is a corollary to this "Locally preferred" thing in Bi-Fold doors.
The CORRECT way to mount the knobs is on the outer panels, the ones with the jamb hinges.

But many people in some areas have seen it done with the knobs mounted on the center panels for so long that they believe this is the correct way. And they insist that you put the knobs on the two inside (center) door panels. Hence, we constnantly have to go back to repair Bi-Fold doors that have frustrated someone so badly that they finally yanked them right out of the frames.
It must be a local thing here as well as there, I really never gave it a thought. The rule I was taught back in the early 60s was "cut from the thin, thick side up." Now days there are so many different styles molding that it would be hard to say which side is up. I know the molding in our kitchen would be considered upside down but that is the look we both wanted as it isn't regular ceiling mold.

I don't guess it makes any difference as long as a person likes it. There are times that the ceiling mold needs to go further down on the wall than on the ceiling and some times the opposite.
Just a thought, I have never cut ceiling mold on my miter saw laying flat as some folks do so I don't know the answer to this. Would it make any difference cutting the ceiling mold thin side up vs thin side down laying flat on the saw? In other words, would the ceiling mold bed correctly cut either way?

As for bi-fold doors, I have seen the knob several different ways, I put the knob on the door away from the jamb, next to the hinge.
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Old 01-11-2012, 02:26 PM   #19
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As for bi-fold doors, I have seen the knob several different ways, I put the knob on the door away from the jamb, next to the hinge.
Almost anywhere you look anymore, you will see the knobs on the wrong doors. It has just become such a habit that no one any longer thinks about it.

On most doors, it is not all that bad because they put the knob near where the door panels are hinged together.

But over the years, it has kept getting worse. Now days many of the knobs are mounted in the center of the panel farthest away from the jamb because this looks prettier.

All it does is create an action that is in direct opposition of the natural swing of the doors, and they buckle and bind like mad.... jamming and jerking most of the way open or closed. This is the main reason so many people detest Bi-Fold doors in their houses.
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Old 01-11-2012, 08:40 PM   #20
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Crown Molding install question


ok thanks folks. This is my own kitchen I'm DYI

so now before I actually cut a $50 piece of crown I'm a little shakey yet.

My first run of Cabs I am working on has the L side butt a wall and the R side needs an outside corner.

It looks like I should hold the molding up to the cabs at the spring angle and mark where the R side of cabs ends onto the molding and then turn the molding upside down on the chop saw and cut right at the mark.

So if I were to be off then I'd have wrecked the piece so I am being cautious on this first cut.

Any advice on how to measure correctly? I figure holding piece up and marking it rather than try to tape measure it...?

Thanks again you're all a great crew !
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Old 01-11-2012, 09:26 PM   #21
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Crown Molding install question


CAUTION! Look at the right side where you need the outside corner. Is there a 1/4" rail at the front? And maybe even the back, too? If so, you will need to rip a skinny strip (1/4" or whatever the offset is, X the necessary length to fill in the cabinet area.... probably about 11.5") before you try to put the crown on that side.
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Old 01-11-2012, 09:29 PM   #22
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Crown Molding install question


Quote:
It looks like I should hold the molding up to the cabs at the spring angle and mark where the R side of cabs ends onto the molding and then turn the molding upside down on the chop saw and cut right at the mark.
Correct, but.......... (see below)


I usually just cut the long piece 1/4" or so long, and incrementally keep on trimming it down and testing the length till it fits perfectly.

Takes you 5 or 6 minutes longer per stick. No big deal.

BTW, you always measure for the bottom cut of the angle... the part that goes against the cabinet... not the high point out in space at the top of the molding.
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Old 01-11-2012, 10:37 PM   #23
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ok thanks I will over shoot and make it longer and cut down until perfect makes sense!

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Old 01-11-2012, 11:00 PM   #24
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Crown Molding install question


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CAUTION! Look at the right side where you need the outside corner. Is there a 1/4" rail at the front? And maybe even the back, too? If so, you will need to rip a skinny strip (1/4" or whatever the offset is, X the necessary length to fill in the cabinet area.... probably about 11.5") before you try to put the crown on that side.

Thanks for pointing this out.

Here is a diagram of how someone did a crown on a custom cab that I have. It's custom glass doors all handmade etc... so I figure they must know what they are doing. They cut 3x6" strips and cut 45 angles into one end of the 'stick' to use as support points for the crown, I think they glued to these.

I am trying this out and so there is no nailer to worry about at the corners just one 'stick out' in the middle of each cab.

we'll see what happens tomorrow!
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Old 01-12-2012, 09:58 AM   #25
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Crown Molding install question


This will show you what I mean. I have made the ripping a different color, but it will be exactly the same color as the cabinets and crown.

The bottom of the ripping lines up with the bottom line of the crown. All this is for is to fill in the gap at the side caused by the front rail sticking out there. The ripping can stick up above the cabinet some, and it won't matter a bit.
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Old 01-13-2012, 05:26 PM   #26
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Crown Molding install question


Thanks all! I was able to get my first piece of crown up onto the simplest cab run!

see a pic of it and to show what I ended up doing for support.

with my skill level I felt better doing this in case it did not work I could rip the blocks up easily and do something else but it works well.

My corner cut I am happy that it fit as well as it did. The joint has a 1/16" gap at the top partly because I think my saw is not quit perfectly straight it is an older craftsman and I think it is just a hair off being tilted just a tad but it shows 0 degrees on the vertical axis (it's compound miter saw)

Also the corner piece had no block (a mistake I will not make again)

but if I squeeze the pieces together I get a tight fit and I can fill any tiny gaps
if I can just get it to hold together.

I would glue it if I knew how to clamp something like that. A brad would do it but I'm nervous it might not go in straight and cause some un repairable damage that will look really bad.

any ideas?
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Old 01-13-2012, 07:21 PM   #27
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Crown Molding install question


Petr,
Looks like you're off to good start. The little braces look like they should work fine. One other thing I do is cut the longest pieces first. If you start the other way you're liable to end up with 3 or 4 small pieces that if you could put them back together, you would be long enough to cut that last piece that needs to be 6'. Heard this can happen.
As far as sqeezing the corner, I use spring clamps. Some people call them hog rings. They put a fair amount of pressure on the corner. They will leave two small nicks in the wood. I just fill them with a wax type touch up pencil. If you have access to a 23 gauge micropinner, they work well for pinning the outside miters while the glue sets up. You have to have a good tight miter though, they won't draw an open joint together.
One other thing, check your saw setup. Get a good fixed square and check and see if the blade is square to the bed and the fence. There are adjustments to take care of any misalignments. Just make sure the blade of the square rests in the gullet of the tooth, not on the tooth itself.
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Old 01-13-2012, 08:33 PM   #28
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Crown Molding install question


Hey thanks for the vote of confidence and the advice. I think the saw is my first order of biz I'll check in now with a square. and I"ll check on some clamp. Hopefully the saw being adjusted will fix most of the gap.

the clamp you mean is this kind in pic? Where does it leave a nick? I'm not clear how this will clamp onto the corner.

gettin' there !



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Petr,
Looks like you're off to good start. The little braces look like they should work fine. One other thing I do is cut the longest pieces first. If you start the other way you're liable to end up with 3 or 4 small pieces that if you could put them back together, you would be long enough to cut that last piece that needs to be 6'. Heard this can happen.
As far as sqeezing the corner, I use spring clamps. Some people call them hog rings. They put a fair amount of pressure on the corner. They will leave two small nicks in the wood. I just fill them with a wax type touch up pencil. If you have access to a 23 gauge micropinner, they work well for pinning the outside miters while the glue sets up. You have to have a good tight miter though, they won't draw an open joint together.
One other thing, check your saw setup. Get a good fixed square and check and see if the blade is square to the bed and the fence. There are adjustments to take care of any misalignments. Just make sure the blade of the square rests in the gullet of the tooth, not on the tooth itself.
Mike Hawkins
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Old 01-13-2012, 10:01 PM   #29
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No, this kind of clamp. It's called a Collins Clamp.
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Old 01-14-2012, 08:11 AM   #30
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I'll hunt one of these down and give it a shot.

I had another thought though what if get some hot glue into the back side of the joint and hold it? It will set in 30 sec

does anyone ever use hot glue like that?

I"ll experiment on a scrap piece joint and see if it looks like it will hold.

Thanks!

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