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Ceiling Crown Gaps: Eliminate Via Screws?

3K views 24 replies 7 participants last post by  hand drive 
#1 · (Edited)
All -

I have 4" wide ceiling crown made from pine in a game room. The guy that installed it for me about 6 years ago did not install wedge-shaped strips of wood behind the crown to ensure every nail had a solid grab/something solid to bite into (for those who may not understand, it is common to cut a 2" x 4" into wedge-shaped / triangular-shaped lengths, screw the wedges into the corner where the wall meets the ceiling and then install the ceiling crown over it, shooting the crown nails into the wedge strips....I learned that by reading a crown installation book and tried it in my master bedroom closet. Four years later there's not even a tiny crack between the crown and the wall or the ceiling.)

Anyway...about 2-3 yrs ago ugly gaps between the crown and the walls in the game room started appearing. The largest gap in one area is almost 1/16". Most gaps are about 1/32". Simply re-caulking is not an option since expansion/contraction will still occur and creat more gaps. I first thought about closing the gap using long finish nails but I have almost zero confidence the nails will permanently close the gap due to expansion / contraction over time plus when I checked with local hardware stores/big box stores and even Fastenal, I could not find a long enough finish nail that would ensure a good bite into the walls' 2" x 4" top plate.

Question: has anyone ever tried using SCREWS to eliminate ceiling crown gaps between the crown and the wall? If so, did you use finish screws or long sheetrock screws? (Finish screws have a smaller hole to putty / sand over but less holding power due to smaller threads while sheetrock screws leave a bigger hole to putty / sand over but more holding power due to larger threads). How well did using screws work?

Knowledgeable opinions are welcome (and needed!). Gotta keep a slow moving home remodel going....

I'll post pix tonight.
 
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#2 · (Edited)
Well, for starters, any time you need to fill a screw or nail hole, as odd as it sounds, you do NOT want a small, shallow hole.

You need a large enough, and deep enough hole to give sufficient area for the spackling to grip into and remain there during shrinkage. Shove that spackling in there with your thumb... hard!
 
#3 · (Edited)
Wedges sound cute, but are very insufficient... and a pain in the rear to cut and install.

Crown backers made from unaltered dimensional lumber (1x to 2x, depending on the crown size) gives you the opportunity to nail the crown anywhere you feel like nailing it.

Shoot the backers in with a framing nailer..... They WILL NOT move.

Even though you may have installed wedges, you never nail the crown right at the edges anyway.... it will often split.

I have installed a ton of crown on regular old firring strips. 1x3 works pretty good on slightly larger crown........ and "Yes", sometimes on HUGE crown (where you use the 2x material), you may have to bevel off the back edges a little to keep the backer from getting too close to the crown.... you need it to stay away from the crown a little.
 

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#4 ·
Install all your crown with a liberal bead of ADHESIVE caulking along the top and bottom back edges, and, trust me, the stuff will never pull loose from either the wall or the ceiling.
 
#5 ·
You will find that "X" nailing, (crossing two nails close to one another at about 35 degrees), will help "pull" the crown tighter than just straight individual nails.
 
#8 · (Edited)
Willie -

All good info to know for installing crown in the future. I wondered if nailing at an angle or in an "X" pattern would work, too. If I nail the crown back to the wall, that's what I'll do.

2 questions:

1 - Have you ever heard of anyone using screws to eliminate gaps?

2 - What brand of adhesive caulking do you use and is it paintable?

The game room is being remodeled/repainted and to do it right I cut the old caulking out to ensure I could close the gaps 100%. Will the adhesive caulking you recommend have much grip/holding power if it's only installed on the bottom edge of the crown? (I left the caulking between the crown and the ceiling; that didn't split/leave gaps.) Thinking that answer is "no"....
 
#6 ·
1/16" to 1/32" does not seem an unreasonable gap to caulk now and then to me? You are never going to get the crown and wall to stay one and the same. They are different materials and expand and contract at different rates.

Use a quality flexible put paintable caulk. Some silicone it is may help but be wary of the evil solid silicone stuff.
 
#9 · (Edited)
1/16" to 1/32" does not seem an unreasonable gap to caulk now and then to me? You are never going to get the crown and wall to stay one and the same. They are different materials and expand and contract at different rates.

Use a quality flexible put paintable caulk. Some silicone it is may help but be wary of the evil solid silicone stuff.
sdsester -

1/32", 1/16".....what can I say?....I don't like any gaps at all. Re-caulking is a hassle because if you don't tape along the wall your caulking gets 'smushed' on your nicely painted wall (and wiping it with a damp cloth doesn't seem to remove it entirely) and even if it did, because caulking is invariably never a 100% match on color, you need to take a brush and touch up the bottom edge of the crown to hide the new caulking. Again, a hassle. Unpainted caulking ALWAYS retains/holds dust and dirt and gets gross due. I'd rather fix it once/do it so the fasteners will hold the crown snug and never have to worry about expansion gaps again. I'd been told by someone once that screws are the way to do that but wanted to ask here....
 
#7 ·
One more point.... Never install your backers so that they actually "touch" the crown back. They should always have at least an eighth, if not a quarter of an inch of space between the backer face and the crown back.

Installing right, smack-dab on the face of a backer can actually CAUSE the crown to later move away from the wall or ceiling.
 
#13 · (Edited)
BTW, on a side note, since you mentioned it, over-fastening drywall is probably the #1 cause of cracking. Fasteners are to hold the stuff on the wall, not hold it stiffly in place. Houses move all over the place, and the wall board needs to be able to "float" to only slightly follow the deflections of the lumber.... never to stay directly WITH it.

That's why good hangers never fasten up close to 90° intersections.... like wall-to-ceiling and at inside corners.
 
#17 ·
All -
The largest gap in one area is almost 1/16". Most gaps are about 1/32".
Just so you all do not have to read the original post. Op is asking how to take a thin span of shaped/milled crown molding (real sliced timber and not synthetic I assume) across a room. I am guessing at least 6' to 8' pine or fir. One hopes kiln dried. I am guessing he has standard on center framing.

The gaps of 1/16" to 1/32" along the span trouble him. He does not want to use caulk but would prefer fasteners of some kind to draw the timber perfectly flat to the wall with no gaps and no need for ever caulking again. I did not sight the lumber but assume, it was perfectly straight and had no major crown issues.

I honestly do not know what to suggest to him. I know fasteners that will pull the molding air tight where there is framing? Actually I do not. You cannot pull thin molding air tight, with no 1/32 gap showing permanent to a wall with anything I new of?
 
#22 · (Edited)
Just so you all do not have to read the original post. Op is asking how to take a thin span of shaped/milled crown molding (real sliced timber and not synthetic I assume) across a room. I am guessing at least 6' to 8' pine or fir. One hopes kiln dried. I am guessing he has standard on center framing.

The gaps of 1/16" to 1/32" along the span trouble him. He does not want to use caulk but would prefer fasteners of some kind to draw the timber perfectly flat to the wall with no gaps and no need for ever caulking again.
sdsester -

Your statement above about my plans are NOT fully correct. I cut the caulking out to ensure I could close the gap. Then after closing the gap I fully intend to caulk the seam again. See my 08-16-2013, 12:50 AM post.

What I DON'T want to do is to caulk over and over and over again, endlessly trying to eliminate reoccuring gaps. Nope...close the gap, caulk it, paint it and (hopefully) never have to worry about it again.

Break....break....

impossible :no:

stained crown is about as close as you can get to not showing wall imperfection, the darkness of the stain blends well with shadow gaps...
hand drive -

Yes, without caulking, you are correct. Like I explained to sdsester (again!) is that I will in fact caulk the seam once I'm done putting in additional fasteners. Thanks for the input about shooting in 'double nails' at an angle. One professional trim carpenter I talked to mentioned that, as well.

STILL would like to know if anyone ever used screws (either a sheetrock screw or a finish screw) to close the gap securely enough that, when caulked afterwards, and painted, would prevent gaps between the crown and the wall from occuring.....

If I don't hear from anyone saying that's a poor idea and why, I think I'm going to try it. Only reason not to, perhaps, is if the screw(s) back out over time??????
 
#18 ·
I've had to go through and redo all the crown in houses where the builder and [painter cheaped out and did not nail/caulk correctly.depending on the crown size- find the studs and ceiling joists and nail into them... on ceilings that the joists run the other way do the double nail up through and at an angle like a hook into the ceiling drywall, push up on crown with hand before nailing to get a tight fit. aim into the same hole with the double nail for putty purposes..

if you want to add trim screws into the crown, maybe tack it up with nails and then come back and screw it off...
 
#23 ·
I personally wouldn't use screws because it could pull dimples in the molding. There is caulk today that will hold up for many years. If you are using this caulk and still getting gaps then you have more problems than having to worry about a slight gap.

I had much rather have the caulk, as you said you do plan to use, than have to pull the trim tight with screws and take the chance of seeing everywhere there is a screw, which is possible. If all trim had to be pulled that tight by trim carpenters, the costs would surely get higher. In a perfect world this would be possible but, you know.
 
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