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Old 10-21-2009, 06:33 PM   #16
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Can someone explain this Attic Space for me?!?!


With 16" I-joists I'd also say #3 wall is load bearing the way it is built

The center posts also have their base spread across several I-joists
Might be the camera/angle, but they look a little bowed under weight

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Old 10-21-2009, 07:52 PM   #17
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Can someone explain this Attic Space for me?!?!


#1 are collar ties, they are to support the roof loads, nothing to do with the spreading of the bottoms of rafters. They are placed exactly where they should be, installed properly, 1/2 way from ridge to next bearing-- the purlins #3. These are load bearing, installed properly. Collar ties: http://books.google.com/books?id=1fI...20ties&f=false

#5 are diagonal braces required on the exterior walls to keep them from spreading because there are no rafter ties (cross members at plate height at seat cut of rafter bottoms, ceiling joists or attic floor, installed improperly. They should be on edge to stabilize the roof deflections movement rather the way they are will bounce with movement (need an upright brace).

#4 are ridge supports, as mentioned by Daniel, look to be bearing on a flat 2x running perpendicular to the joists, not really load bearing. Only a local Structural Engineer would know the solution. The roof framing may be per blueprint this way because of your drop floor, so to speak, which I find unusual. Because: Normally, I-joists are required to have a rim (engineered wood 1-1/4" thick) or blocking between joists to prevent rotation (turnover). Yet looking at the pic with the wall on the left side, I see the joists are nailed to the sides of the wall studs. But no blocking, unless it is a rim on the outside (exterior) of the wall (house), which I doubt because it is thicker than the OSB wall sheathing above it. All the framing looks fine for the smaller (not under-sized) 2x6 rafters used.
Be safe, Gary
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Old 10-26-2009, 09:00 PM   #18
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Can someone explain this Attic Space for me?!?!


Thanks to all of you who took the time to look at this. One of the earlier posts suggested contacting the Inspector and Framer. While I wasn't ready to invite the city of San Antonio for second look, the builder did provide me the original blueprint and an kindly sent over a construction supervisor for an explanation. We also are having a Structural Engineer ($395) out this Thursday but I emailed him the same pictures and he has already gave me a brief explanation of the framing on the phone. Both said this construction is standard practice when an short exterior wall is raised above the level of the floor joists and the joists cannot be used to support the rafters.
The house plan was originally flipped, but changed on-site to better fit a significant slope. The garage was dropped around 7 feet below the main floor of the house. To preserve the original roof line, the builder had to add the 4 foot short exterior walls on top of the garage. To support the roof load, according to the Engineer, the Builder put 16" I-joists every 12 inches the length of the space and used purloins, crossties, and the opposing pony walls to carry the load on the I-joists.
The Engineer pointed out, as GBR in WA said, that the pony walls are half the distance of the entire span and the crossties are half the distance of the upper span of the rafters.
He did say, just like GBR, that the purloins are flat and should be on edge, and that at first glance he would expect crossties at every rafter and more purloins.
Both Builder and Engineer said the center posts were installed to support the ridge board during construction, and could be safely removed.
The Engineer said the builder did me a favor by building it this way, as it allows a significant part of the space to be utilized (400 out of 660 sq ft.). He said the only reasonable alternative would have been to run another set of beams or I-joists across the top of the 4 ft wall to tie the rafters, in which case I would have no headroom at all. The Engineer is coming by specifically to check if the pony walls can be moved back a few feet, but on the phone he said maybe 24 inches max, and just as likely maybe not at all, but I'll have to wait until Thursday to find out. If so it will be another 120 sq ft.
I'll have it in writing and drawn up by this weekend. Many thanks to all of you who took the time to take a look at it for me.
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Last edited by TX Recon; 10-26-2009 at 09:40 PM.
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Old 10-26-2009, 09:20 PM   #19
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Can someone explain this Attic Space for me?!?!


Good news I think
If you can't remove #3 (pony walls) there are few enough supports that you could finish the exterior small walls & leave the #3 posts
Maybe built in storage/computer desk etc here or there to break up the posts
Built in drawers at the outer walls are another good use & add more buffer against the outside wall
--depending upon what you will use the space for
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Old 10-26-2009, 09:30 PM   #20
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Can someone explain this Attic Space for me?!?!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Anti-wingnut View Post
You have a mess, and anyone who would give you a specific answer to your questions based on this photo is either guessing, or a fool.
WRONG

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anti-wingnut View Post
Yes to all.

Happy now
RUDE

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anti-wingnut View Post
OK, I'll explain this nicely. Your ridge beam is not a structural element, it is only there to hold up the rafters. The rafters are probably undersized, and the collar ties (item 1) are too high to be effective.
Items 4 and 5 are probably remnants of the construction process. Item 3 (pony wall) is probably a poorly thought out attempt to stiffen a undersized roof system.
It is unfortunate that you took umbrage at my characterization of the posts, ponies, and bracing as a hodge podge, but that is truly what it appears to be. If anyone tells you otherwise, I would be shocked.
RUDE and WRONG


Quote:
Originally Posted by Anti-wingnut View Post
His current attic has been done wrong. If there is any question, I can post this on ContractorTalk, and they will rip the original framer to peices. Quality work is not done this way, and work correctly designed is not designed this way.
WRONG

What a tool. I was looking for a little insight. Your quick and incorrect assessment of the photos was both pointless and discouraged other "fools" from attempting to assess the attic. I took umbrage not to your inept assessment of the space, but rather your judgement call and quickness to disparage those who would take the time to answer the title question of the post. While I'm not a builder, a Structural Engineer, or a Framer, I know that when I see lumber evenly spaced in a pattern of any kind, it is more than likely the result of a plan, even a bad one, and not, by definition, a "hodge podge" or mess. I researched it thoroughly and posted it here when I could not find an answer. Your inability to recognize that simple pattern and the possibility that there may be a different manner of construction than the single one you learned speaks volumes about the special kind of self-righteous ignorant fool you are. Next time you find yourself speaking for the rest of the internet (the world) take a look in the mirror and remind yourself that you, in fact, don't really know it all.

Last edited by TX Recon; 10-26-2009 at 09:37 PM.
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Old 10-27-2009, 12:10 AM   #21
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Can someone explain this Attic Space for me?!?!


Measure that spot in the attic from where the pictures where taken so we can see a "after" photo! We are all here to help, and happy to do so. Keep us posted.
Be safe, Gary
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Old 10-27-2009, 01:32 AM   #22
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Can someone explain this Attic Space for me?!?!


Just $.02 from a Texas Gulf Coast framer... If you're in San Antonio, your roof is built a lot stonger than most of what I've seen slapped up in that town.

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