Builder skipped ceiling joists in bonus room need advice

Wildie · 08-03-2008, 07:27 PM

From the photo, it appears to me that the roof rafters are on 16" centers. Nothing wrong with that!
The collar ties are 2X8,s and nothing wrong with that. 32" centers for collar ties is not unusual.
The problem lies with the dry wall. It will likely sag, over the course of time.
If 2X6 joists were installed between the collar ties, the problem would be resolved.

Big Bob · 08-03-2008, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wildie

From the photo, it appears to me that the roof rafters are on 16" centers. Nothing wrong with that!
The collar ties are 2X8,s and nothing wrong with that. 32" centers for collar ties is not unusual.
The problem lies with the dry wall. It will likely sag, over the course of time.
If 2X6 joists were installed between the collar ties, the problem would be resolved.

What collar ties? I know I'm due for new glasses...but

ever other rafter or every 4' oc per engr. Are you calling the 2x8 ceiling joists collar ties?

yes conventional frame on rafters 16" oc ( not trusses as advised by original poster) another reason for him to hire a pro..

Drywall appears to have a bed coat... so ...clean off the back side
and fire cut a 2 by ( yep looks like it's under 11'4 so a 2x6 should work.. but block up to properly set rat run...
To name it is to know it. dang it grandpa!!!

this just isn't my day...

Wildie · 08-03-2008, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Bob

What collar ties? I know I'm due for new glasses...but

ever other rafter or every 4' oc per engr. Are you calling the 2x8 ceiling joists collar ties?

yes conventional frame on rafters 16" oc ( not trusses as advised by original poster) another reason for him to hire a pro..

Drywall appears to have a bed coat... so ...clean off the back side
and fire cut a 2 by ( yep looks like it's under 11'4 so a 2x6 should work.. but block up to properly set rat run...
To name it is to know it. dang it grandpa!!!

this just isn't my day...

"ever other rafter or every 4' oc per engr. Are you calling the 2x8 ceiling joists collar ties?"
Sure! Collar ties can be laid from the wall plate and on up the rafter.
I've seen them used just like this, lots of times. Especially, in garages!

Big Bob · 08-03-2008, 09:56 PM

somebody help here im to old for this.

4just1don · 08-03-2008, 11:34 PM

Used to be 'stories' here of same thing,,,builder would 'place' all the studs and joists,,,then after inspection take half of them back out,,spose he never even nailed them in or short fastened them. SO it may not be an inspector issue,,but it SHOULD be required to LOOK at final inspection!!

I never took MUCH stock in this story cause the houses have stood 50 years in a whole subdivision of 3-500 houses and woud here screaming by now from remodelers!!!

Had another builder bragging one day his crew could frame quicker,hang windows and doors quicker and trim quicker than anyone else in town,,,yep,,,he was right,,few years later doors and windows fell out of openings cause only couple nails in each!!

Wildie · 08-03-2008, 11:41 PM

Well Bob, at least explain where you think the weakness lies in this construction!
i'm sure you wouldn't have built this, this way. I know that I would not!
The postee has a concern, and the weakness of the construction should be identified, so that he can remedy the problem.
I have given my take on it, I'd like to hear yours!

**Termite** · 08-03-2008, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Bob

somebody help here im to old for this.

Those are not collar ties. They are ceiling joists. Collar ties become ceiling joists as soon as you add sheetrock to them. That doesn't mean that collar ties can't function as ceiling joists though. To be considered collar ties, most people would require that they are located somewhere above the plateline closer to the ridge. Semantics.

Fact is that those ceiling joists are spaced too far apart. Doesn't everyone agree on that point?

Big Bob · 08-04-2008, 08:24 AM

http://qcfocus.com/answered-question/collar-tie-purpose

http://www.tpub.com/content/engineer.../14069_213.htm

agreed: semantics... 4'oc wall to wall = rafter ties

Good practice of the trade in FL is collar tie 2' down from the ridge 4' oc
(wind)

Wildie · 08-04-2008, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thekctermite

Those are not collar ties. They are ceiling joists. Collar ties become ceiling joists as soon as you add sheetrock to them. That doesn't mean that collar ties can't function as ceiling joists though. To be considered collar ties, most people would require that they are located somewhere above the plateline closer to the ridge. Semantics.

Fact is that those ceiling joists are spaced too far apart. Doesn't everyone agree on that point?

SEMANTICS, thats the point. The joists are collar ties until the sheet rock is fastened on the bottom. Then they are called ceiling joists.
I believe that Bob and I agree, that the installation of 2X6 joists, installed on 16" centers, between the 2X8 collar ties/ceiling joists will resolve the problem.
I see no insulation in place, so I assume that this building is in an area, where snow load is not a problem!

crecore · 08-10-2008, 09:36 PM

[quote=Wildie;145809]
I believe that Bob and I agree, that the installation of 2X6 joists, installed on 16" centers, between the 2X8 collar ties/ceiling joists will resolve the problem.
quote]

Can't assume anything on this one, but with bird mouth cut rafters I'd like to see you "slip those extra joists in."

Wildie · 08-11-2008, 07:59 PM

[quote=crecore;147636]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wildie

I believe that Bob and I agree, that the installation of 2X6 joists, installed on 16" centers, between the 2X8 collar ties/ceiling joists will resolve the problem.
quote]

Can't assume anything on this one, but with bird mouth cut rafters I'd like to see you "slip those extra joists in."

Agreed! If the present 32" between the 'ties' doesn't allow the new joists to be placed, perhaps the could be cut in half and sistered with another 2X6.
Keep in mind, its not a structural problem here. It just support for the ceiling board!

minicus · 08-11-2008, 08:54 PM

Nothing can be slid up there. I pulled our blueprints and have a call in to the architect. The original plans call for 2x8 spf grade ceiling joists 16"c/c. How sure are you guys that this isn't going o cause a structural problem? I checked the rafters and it appears that about 1/4 have splits running down them in varrying lengths.

Big Bob · 08-11-2008, 09:43 PM

ughmmmm.
my name keeps popping up. So.. crecore your 100% on.. ain't no slip-pin these in... it will be a bear+ HO tries to leave the drywall in place...bear++

couple of ways to do this (add supports for ceiling rock).. purlins.. bridging
and offset/ add strong backs over bridging , IE... new joist tie to new bridging... ( clean off caulk or joint compound at drywall butt joints...)

[I'd rather take the drywall down]

but, if it ain't broke... don't fix it. Fact is drywall SECURED ON 32" oc WILL look waive.. or if it doesn't you will have a miracle.. please post photos 5 years from now.

I don't know where this is.. poster with 2ND thread now advised 3 year old install... if contract was for unfinished bonus room.. per wildie advise contractor may have fulfilled contract by providing code attic. Who installed drywall? Buletbob advised " strong back".,.. = ( rat run + down south slang) I agree. I can't see H clips on rafters.. I don't know what else I can't see...

Mincus... please 35 more pics or (hire a pro to take a look) . as advised in early posts.

Thank you theKctermite, you were there when I ran out of gas.

crecore · 08-11-2008, 09:46 PM

Everyone seems to have missed the fact that this photo was taken above the ceiling of a bonus room. Minicus states that the rafters are tied to 6' knee walls. So the argument as to whether they are collar ties or ceiling joists was a waste because in this case they are both! That being said, they are structural and if they were put there by the architect it was probably for a reason. If for no other reason than sheetrock, they are still needed.

The splits could just be from shrinkage, a pro needs to look at it.

Big Bob · 08-11-2008, 09:53 PM

I suspect a couple of cross posts here.

Pic does not show cracks that I can see.

Please get a pro to look at this and other issues you might have.

You may have issues you don't even suspect.

" Howsure are we That you won't have any structural problems"? we ARE not sure...
pLEASE GET A TRUSTED PRO TO CHECK IT OUT.

08-03-2008, 07:27 PM	#16
Wildie Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Canada (s/w ON.) Posts: 2,294	Builder skipped ceiling joists in bonus room need advice From the photo, it appears to me that the roof rafters are on 16" centers. Nothing wrong with that! The collar ties are 2X8,s and nothing wrong with that. 32" centers for collar ties is not unusual. The problem lies with the dry wall. It will likely sag, over the course of time. If 2X6 joists were installed between the collar ties, the problem would be resolved.

08-03-2008, 09:56 PM	#19
Big Bob Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 886	Builder skipped ceiling joists in bonus room need advice somebody help here im to old for this.

08-03-2008, 11:34 PM	#20
4just1don Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 795	Builder skipped ceiling joists in bonus room need advice Used to be 'stories' here of same thing,,,builder would 'place' all the studs and joists,,,then after inspection take half of them back out,,spose he never even nailed them in or short fastened them. SO it may not be an inspector issue,,but it SHOULD be required to LOOK at final inspection!! I never took MUCH stock in this story cause the houses have stood 50 years in a whole subdivision of 3-500 houses and woud here screaming by now from remodelers!!! Had another builder bragging one day his crew could frame quicker,hang windows and doors quicker and trim quicker than anyone else in town,,,yep,,,he was right,,few years later doors and windows fell out of openings cause only couple nails in each!!

08-03-2008, 11:41 PM	#21
Wildie Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Canada (s/w ON.) Posts: 2,294	Builder skipped ceiling joists in bonus room need advice Well Bob, at least explain where you think the weakness lies in this construction! i'm sure you wouldn't have built this, this way. I know that I would not! The postee has a concern, and the weakness of the construction should be identified, so that he can remedy the problem. I have given my take on it, I'd like to hear yours!

08-04-2008, 08:24 AM	#23
Big Bob Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 886	Builder skipped ceiling joists in bonus room need advice http://qcfocus.com/answered-question/collar-tie-purpose http://www.tpub.com/content/engineer.../14069_213.htm agreed: semantics... 4'oc wall to wall = rafter ties Good practice of the trade in FL is collar tie 2' down from the ridge 4' oc (wind)

Builder skipped ceiling joists in bonus room need advice