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Builder skipped ceiling joists in bonus room need advice

15K views 31 replies 10 participants last post by  Big Bob 
#1 · (Edited)
Our builder went belly up and need less to saywe continue to find more and more problems. The ceiling joists in the blue print for our bonus room were to be 16" on center. He skipped everyone so all the ceiling joists are 32" on center. All of the trusses are tied into a 6' knee wall, with the ceiling joist being the on an every other pattern. I am planning on adding in the ceiling joists. I wanted to double check nd see if anyone knew if this was necessarybefore I star al of the work. Any feedback is welcomed.
 

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#2 · (Edited)
sounds like you need some eyes on help.. Consider getting another builder or good home inspector.. ask for a detailed list of problems with solutions.

you should double check the status of any permits you have..and what you need to do.

Trusses should be on 2' centers (usually max):eek: spacing should be on your truss details.

If you plan on drywall ceiling, Yes 32" is to much.

get some help, you will be glad you did.
 
#4 ·
sounds like you need some eyes on help.. Consider getting another builder ......you should double check the status of any permits you have..and what you need to do....
I am thinking the same thing - another builder to check over everything, along with, the plans in hand.
Get things looked at, not just the issue being discussed. I'd be concerned about what else he might have "skimped" on structurally (as well as other matters/areas).
 
#3 ·
Our builder went belly up and need less to saywe continue to find more and more problems. The ceiling joists in the blue print for our bonus room were to be 16" on center. He skipped everyone so all the ceiling joists are 32" on center. All of the trusses are tied into a 6' knee wall, with the ceiling joist being the on an every other pattern. I am planning on adding in the ceiling joists. I wanted to double check nd see if anyone knew if this was necessarybefore I star al of the work. Any feedback is welcomed.
Can't you call the Architect that drew your plans and ask him what to do?
 
#6 ·
32"oc is not a good spacing for most residential construction. The roof sheathing can't span that far, let alone the sheetrock ceiling. I'd be concerned all around. You certainly need to add more ceiling joists and rafters.

How to do that is something that you really need to work with a professional on. The challenge is matching the trusses' deflection under loads with conventional framing in between. Not easy to do.

My suggestion is to involve a structural engineer. My next call would be to the local inspection department to determine how on earth he passed a rough-in framing inspection. If he did, they should be ashamed.
 
#7 ·
Did you choose a builder based upon cheap price or did you get a license number, insurance info, and performance bond? and then verify the information?

Contact your local building inspector for help. He can tell you if there is a state or local builders board. If so, contact them for help.

I am a licensed contractor, and no, I have no sympathy if you just based your purchase on cheap price only.
 
#8 ·
If the building inspector passed this I would talk to a lawyer. Usually they are immune from lawsuits but I would at least ask. Things change everyday. After all this is what the build permits and inspections system was set up to prevent.
 
#14 ·
If the building inspector passed this I would talk to a lawyer. Usually they are immune from lawsuits but I would at least ask. Things change everyday. After all this is what the build permits and inspections system was set up to prevent.
As embarassing as this framing should be to the local inspection department if it was inspected and passed, you don't have much recourse against the city. In order to be awarded damages, you have to prove gross negligence on their part. I assure you, gross negligence is pretty difficult to prove if they actually performed an on-site inspection. Most cases that a city loses will simply result in a damages award that covers the legal fees. It is next to impossible to hold the city financially responsible for your lousy builder's mistakes. I'd focus my lawyer's efforts elsewhere.

If it did pass a framing inspection, I would request a meeting with the building department director, as well as the city manager/mayor/councilman. They need to know how ineffective their inspector is.
 
#9 · (Edited)
collar ties / gable end x brace / rat run....... thats just from the pic

can't believe a pro would hang that ceiling...

Where do you live?

you really need a builder to check the whole house out.

How about the $...who owes who? Are you prepared for the courts to send you a bill?

oops!!! is this in Costa Rica ?
 
#15 ·
off topic, but a good place to share this.

Very green inspector tags and does an on the spot evacuation and closes down a nursing home. 77 people moved 50% by ambulance... Improper and disconected gas vent stack on h2o heater in the kitchen.

Turns out this is an electric H20 heater and he was looking at an old not used range vent duct.

LOL:laughing:

owner decides this is a good time to do some renovations.... Building Dept advised there would not be any fees for the permit...:laughing:
 
#16 ·
From the photo, it appears to me that the roof rafters are on 16" centers. Nothing wrong with that!
The collar ties are 2X8,s and nothing wrong with that. 32" centers for collar ties is not unusual.
The problem lies with the dry wall. It will likely sag, over the course of time.
If 2X6 joists were installed between the collar ties, the problem would be resolved.
 
#17 ·
From the photo, it appears to me that the roof rafters are on 16" centers. Nothing wrong with that!
The collar ties are 2X8,s and nothing wrong with that. 32" centers for collar ties is not unusual.
The problem lies with the dry wall. It will likely sag, over the course of time.
If 2X6 joists were installed between the collar ties, the problem would be resolved.
What collar ties? I know I'm due for new glasses...but

ever other rafter or every 4' oc per engr. Are you calling the 2x8 ceiling joists collar ties?

yes conventional frame on rafters 16" oc ( not trusses as advised by original poster) another reason for him to hire a pro..

Drywall appears to have a bed coat... so ...clean off the back side
and fire cut a 2 by ( yep looks like it's under 11'4 so a 2x6 should work.. but block up to properly set rat run...
To name it is to know it. dang it grandpa!!!

this just isn't my day...
 
#22 ·
Those are not collar ties. They are ceiling joists. Collar ties become ceiling joists as soon as you add sheetrock to them. That doesn't mean that collar ties can't function as ceiling joists though. To be considered collar ties, most people would require that they are located somewhere above the plateline closer to the ridge. Semantics.

Fact is that those ceiling joists are spaced too far apart. Doesn't everyone agree on that point?
 
#20 ·
Used to be 'stories' here of same thing,,,builder would 'place' all the studs and joists,,,then after inspection take half of them back out,,spose he never even nailed them in or short fastened them. SO it may not be an inspector issue,,but it SHOULD be required to LOOK at final inspection!!

I never took MUCH stock in this story cause the houses have stood 50 years in a whole subdivision of 3-500 houses and woud here screaming by now from remodelers!!!

Had another builder bragging one day his crew could frame quicker,hang windows and doors quicker and trim quicker than anyone else in town,,,yep,,,he was right,,few years later doors and windows fell out of openings cause only couple nails in each!!
 
#21 ·
Too old!

Well Bob, at least explain where you think the weakness lies in this construction!
i'm sure you wouldn't have built this, this way. I know that I would not!
The postee has a concern, and the weakness of the construction should be identified, so that he can remedy the problem.
I have given my take on it, I'd like to hear yours!
 
#27 ·
Nothing can be slid up there. I pulled our blueprints and have a call in to the architect. The original plans call for 2x8 spf grade ceiling joists 16"c/c. How sure are you guys that this isn't going o cause a structural problem? I checked the rafters and it appears that about 1/4 have splits running down them in varrying lengths.
 
#28 ·
ughmmmm.
my name keeps popping up. So.. crecore your 100% on.. ain't no slip-pin these in... it will be a bear+ HO tries to leave the drywall in place...bear++

couple of ways to do this (add supports for ceiling rock).. purlins.. bridging
and offset/ add strong backs over bridging , IE... new joist tie to new bridging... ( clean off caulk or joint compound at drywall butt joints...)

[I'd rather take the drywall down]


but, if it ain't broke... don't fix it. Fact is drywall SECURED ON 32" oc WILL look waive.. or if it doesn't you will have a miracle.. please post photos 5 years from now.



I don't know where this is.. poster with 2ND thread now advised 3 year old install... if contract was for unfinished bonus room.. per wildie advise contractor may have fulfilled contract by providing code attic. Who installed drywall? Buletbob advised " strong back".,.. = ( rat run + down south slang) I agree. I can't see H clips on rafters.. I don't know what else I can't see...

Mincus... please 35 more pics or (hire a pro to take a look) . as advised in early posts.

Thank you theKctermite, you were there when I ran out of gas.
 
#29 ·
Everyone seems to have missed the fact that this photo was taken above the ceiling of a bonus room. Minicus states that the rafters are tied to 6' knee walls. So the argument as to whether they are collar ties or ceiling joists was a waste because in this case they are both! That being said, they are structural and if they were put there by the architect it was probably for a reason. If for no other reason than sheetrock, they are still needed.

The splits could just be from shrinkage, a pro needs to look at it.
 
#30 · (Edited)
I suspect a couple of cross posts here.

Pic does not show cracks that I can see.

Please get a pro to look at this and other issues you might have.:)

You may have issues you don't even suspect.

" Howsure are we That you won't have any structural problems"? we ARE not sure...
pLEASE GET A TRUSTED PRO TO CHECK IT OUT.
 
#31 ·
just to create conversation...

lets assume for a minute that the roof system was ok and consider another method for the sheetrock sagging problem.

Running 2x4's 16 oc the opposite direction (as beefy firring strips), fastened to the 32 oc joists right over the sheetrock (well physically under the sheetrock). Then re-rock over it. You're more than doubling the dead weight but it can all be done from below. Ive firred 24 oc trusses but 32 with double rock is a stretch. Disregarding the roof system, you'd just look up the span kneewall to kneewall and wpf for joists.

Just food for thought.
 
#32 ·
Crecore, Great point!!! my 1st reaction to your food for thought above ... well ... was to throw up....

But, if little people live in this house ...where a 5" 10"" ceiling works ....

then ... as i digest your plan...my tummy is comfortable.

go munchkins...


6' ceilings ... might be code in oz...but 7' most everywhere else.

Mincus, yet another reason to hire a pro.... do we need, or would you like us to take up a fund? You advised 6' knee walls with common rafter ties 32"oc(semantics collar ties/) ceiling joist, because they have gypsum board adhered. So what you have per code is a storage area, not a legal room. ( good news is be sure you are not taxed for this square footage as living space.)
 
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