BEST Substrate For Formica? - Carpentry - DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum
Advertisement


Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Carpentry

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-03-2015, 11:26 AM   #1
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 105
Rewards Points: 165
Default

BEST substrate for Formica?


Just what the title says- What is the best substrate for Formica counter tops? Not the cheapest, easiest, or most common, but what is best? All of the ones I've seen have been particleboard, and all of the ones I've seen get wet and turn to mush sooner or later. I'm doing two stretches of counter with Formica, each with a top-mount SS sink. I'm considering Advantech (floor sheathing) because of its water resistance. They guarantee it for 300 days of weather exposure, and my own experience is that it really can handle getting wet. Regardless of what I use, I'm also going to seal the sink cut-out with polyurethane to further protect it. I will of course properly bed the sink with sealant as well.

Is there any reason not to use Advantech? Is there something better? Don't recommend granite/quartz/solid surface. They are out of the budget, and we actually prefer Formica.

Advertisement

MushCreek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2015, 11:56 AM   #2
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Southeast MA
Posts: 1,186
Rewards Points: 1,704
Default

BEST substrate for Formica?


Advantech or MDF can both be used, not so much particle. Oars or sob. Ron

Advertisement

ront02769 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2015, 11:58 AM   #3
MEASURE ONCE, CUT TWICE
 
123pugsy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: MARKHAM, ON
Posts: 1,016
Rewards Points: 708
Default

BEST substrate for Formica?


There is supposed to be water resistant MDF. My neighbor has it outside. He made 4 sided columns for his front porch. He also said he tried a piece in a pail of water overnight and let it dry with no damage.
__________________
Pugsy.....my project: Total House Rebuild Bungalow to Two Story
123pugsy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2015, 12:15 PM   #4
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Hartfield VA
Posts: 30,072
Rewards Points: 5,250
Default

BEST substrate for Formica?


Do not use Advantech, it has a waxy film on it to repell water.
No even suppose to apply linolium directly over.
__________________
When posting in forums, letting us know your location will help others give better feedback/advice/solutions to your questions
joecaption is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to joecaption For This Useful Post:
PaliBob (07-06-2015)
Old 07-03-2015, 12:20 PM   #5
nap
You talking to me?
 
nap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: sw mi
Posts: 7,137
Rewards Points: 5,460
Default

BEST substrate for Formica?


exterior grade plywood with an mdf overlay (Formica can have show through with defects in the substrate although if you go to great lengths and use a filler and make the surface basically defect free you would not need to use the mdf)
nap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2015, 12:47 PM   #6
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 105
Rewards Points: 165
Default

BEST substrate for Formica?


I read some people use Advantech, and it works fine with sovent-based glue, but not with water-based. I've glued it together, and it seems to bond OK. Of course, there isn't any long-term test results- it hasn't been around that long.

Most laminate manufacturers don't recommend plywood, and it may void the warranty. Supposedly, it shrinks and swells at a different rate than laminate.

Water-resistant MDF might be an idea, if I can find it locally.
MushCreek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2015, 01:00 PM   #7
nap
You talking to me?
 
nap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: sw mi
Posts: 7,137
Rewards Points: 5,460
Default

BEST substrate for Formica?


Quote:
Originally Posted by MushCreek View Post
I read some people use Advantech, and it works fine with sovent-based glue, but not with water-based. I've glued it together, and it seems to bond OK. Of course, there isn't any long-term test results- it hasn't been around that long.

Most laminate manufacturers don't recommend plywood, and it may void the warranty. Supposedly, it shrinks and swells at a different rate than laminate.

Water-resistant MDF might be an idea, if I can find it locally.
what do you think we used before all the crap wood (particle board), OSB, MDF and just about anything other than solid wood was invented? I can show you a bathroom counter that is about 60 years old now. Perfect condition. Plywood with formica overlay. Can you show me a counter made with particle board that is 60 years old that is in perfect condition?

this was culled directly from a publication from the Formica people:


Quote:
Plywood, chipboard and medium density
fibreboard (MDF) are substrate materials,
which lend themselves to good fabrication.
Being cellulose based, their dimensional
movement characteristics are similar to
those of decorative laminates.
http://www.formica.eu/pdf/brochures/...rmation_en.pdf

Last edited by nap; 07-03-2015 at 01:03 PM.
nap is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to nap For This Useful Post:
PaliBob (07-06-2015)
Old 07-03-2015, 01:30 PM   #8
Plumber
 
TheEplumber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: North Idaho
Posts: 8,114
Rewards Points: 2,034
Default

BEST substrate for Formica?


Review this thread- it might help
How To Build A Laminate Countertop
__________________
When posting in forums, letting us know your location will help others give better feedback/advice/solutions to your questions
TheEplumber is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to TheEplumber For This Useful Post:
PaliBob (07-06-2015)
Old 07-03-2015, 03:49 PM   #9
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 105
Rewards Points: 165
Default

BEST substrate for Formica?


Not much consensus on the best material, which is what I found when I googled it. Even the pros all seem to have different opinions on what is best.

Whatever I use, I'm going to polyurethane the sink cut-out for sure, and maybe the underside over the dishwasher.
MushCreek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2015, 09:00 AM   #10
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Southeast MA
Posts: 1,186
Rewards Points: 1,704
Default

BEST substrate for Formica?


Also, unless you figure out how to wrap the bottom front edge around and under, put a couple of coats of poly under there also else water can drip down and wick back. Ron
ront02769 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2015, 10:04 AM   #11
Plumber
 
TheEplumber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: North Idaho
Posts: 8,114
Rewards Points: 2,034
Default

BEST substrate for Formica?


Quote:
Originally Posted by MushCreek View Post
Not much consensus on the best material, which is what I found when I googled it. Even the pros all seem to have different opinions on what is best.

Whatever I use, I'm going to polyurethane the sink cut-out for sure, and maybe the underside over the dishwasher.
I did mine in '92 with particle board. A couple months ago I had the old laminate removed and new installed leaving the old particle board in place.

There was no damage around the sink or over the dishwasher.
All the new homes I work in, either customs or tracks all use particle board.

I can't say which is best but that's my experience with PB.
The only fact I know for sure is that what ever is left on the wood surface will telegraph through the laminate- it must be smooth and clean
__________________
When posting in forums, letting us know your location will help others give better feedback/advice/solutions to your questions
TheEplumber is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to TheEplumber For This Useful Post:
PaliBob (07-06-2015)
Old 07-04-2015, 11:26 AM   #12
MEASURE ONCE, CUT TWICE
 
123pugsy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: MARKHAM, ON
Posts: 1,016
Rewards Points: 708
Default

BEST substrate for Formica?


Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEplumber View Post
I did mine in '92 with particle board. A couple months ago I had the old laminate removed and new installed leaving the old particle board in place.

There was no damage around the sink or over the dishwasher.
All the new homes I work in, either customs or tracks all use particle board.

I can't say which is best but that's my experience with PB.
The only fact I know for sure is that what ever is left on the wood surface will telegraph through the laminate- it must be smooth and clean
Over 20 years and no issues.
It goes to show the importance of installing the sink properly.

Any tips on how you install your drop in sink?
__________________
Pugsy.....my project: Total House Rebuild Bungalow to Two Story
123pugsy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2015, 01:37 PM   #13
Plumber
 
TheEplumber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: North Idaho
Posts: 8,114
Rewards Points: 2,034
Default

BEST substrate for Formica?


Quote:
Originally Posted by 123pugsy View Post
Over 20 years and no issues.
It goes to show the importance of installing the sink properly.

Any tips on how you install your drop in sink?
Lol, no secret. cut the hole, lay the sink into caulk bed, then caulk the rim.

I use "water clean up silicone" caulk- also known as Dap or Kwikseal.

I also maintain the seal as time goes by.

BTW- this is a cast iron self rimming sink. For stainless steel sinks I'll coat the cut edge with caulk before setting as the sink lacks a good sealing surface.
__________________
When posting in forums, letting us know your location will help others give better feedback/advice/solutions to your questions
TheEplumber is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to TheEplumber For This Useful Post:
123pugsy (07-04-2015), PaliBob (07-06-2015)
Old 07-04-2015, 10:57 PM   #14
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,123
Rewards Points: 1,520
Default

BEST substrate for Formica?


Birch ply and coat the cut edge with fiberglass epoxy.

My budget countertop was 1" soapstone. Bought and brought over by myself. Just used diamond blade on a circular saw. Tape the epoxy joint and smooth before it sets. You don't want to sand the glue joint as a diy. You should have a helper for handling the pieces. They were, if I remember correctly, about 26"x48".
carpdad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2015, 08:56 AM   #15
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: north central pa
Posts: 278
Rewards Points: 383
Default

BEST substrate for Formica?


Quote:
Originally Posted by 123pugsy View Post
It goes to show the importance of installing the sink properly.
any water inside the cabinet is trouble, it needs to be sealed OUT. you can't over-seal a kitchen sink imho, with the amount and frequency of water exposure. the sink seal is more important than the substrate material.

it is so often a "set and forget" project, and when the seal is broken, people don't notice or think it is not a big deal. yes, a waterproof substrate would be good, let us know what you find out.

Advertisement


Last edited by TimPa; 07-06-2015 at 08:58 AM.
TimPa is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Is MDF strong enough as substrate for Granite table top? afortini General DIY Discussions 9 02-02-2015 05:19 PM
Basement Bathroom substrate and vapor barrier? ikonone Drywall & Plaster 1 08-09-2013 10:38 PM
Help! Wall Tile Repair with No Substrate? LauraFixItGirl Kitchen & Bath Remodeling 15 06-06-2013 11:28 PM
Help! Wall Tile Repair with No Substrate? LauraFixItGirl Tiling, ceramics, marble 4 06-06-2013 11:05 PM
Dark over light...Do I need tinted primer? melissaandkris Painting 17 09-09-2011 10:43 AM




Top of Page | View New Posts