Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Carpentry

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 09-22-2011, 12:51 PM   #31
Tileguy
 
Bud Cline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,716
Share |
Default

Bathroom Tub surround.


So you want to do this "on-the-cheap" also like the molding thing in the other room?

Bud Cline is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2011, 01:07 PM   #32
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 309
Default

Bathroom Tub surround.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bud Cline View Post
So you want to do this "on-the-cheap" also like the molding thing in the other room?
Well, what I thought was going to be a $50 valve is right now sitting at $3,000 in fixtures and about 3 weeks of my life, and I am just getting started.

So, I am not really trying to spare expense as much as I am thinking...

I have subway tile which is 80 years old and rock solid, and believe me I have poked, prodded, examined, messed with, pried, felt, massaged, manhandled, and have done everything short of X-ray it for signs of weakness.

Can I just lay the tile on top of it?
oldhouseguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2011, 04:13 PM   #33
Tileguy
 
Bud Cline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,716
Default

Bathroom Tub surround.


Quote:
I have poked, prodded, examined, messed with, pried, felt, massaged, manhandled, and have done everything short of X-ray it for signs of weakness.
But have you done anything invasive to determine what is really there?
My guess is the subway tile is installed over a cement installation of some type. Is that what you have found?
Bud Cline is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2011, 04:42 PM   #34
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 309
Default

Bathroom Tub surround.


I will see if I can find out what it is under it and report back.
oldhouseguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2011, 04:43 PM   #35
Tileguy
 
Bud Cline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,716
Default

Bathroom Tub surround.


If you determine it is a concrete substrate - STOP. Substrates don't usually get any better than those age-old installations.
Bud Cline is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2011, 07:14 PM   #36
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 309
Default

Bathroom Tub surround.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bud Cline View Post
If you determine it is a concrete substrate - STOP. Substrates don't usually get any better than those age-old installations.

Yes... I stopped. I can say with absolute certainty that there is a fairly thick layer of concrete board or a concrete foundation of some sort under the subway tile.

Now... let me guess.

Duroc membrane and tile over it???

Or do you have another way I would have never thought of?


(I truly appreciate this knowledge Bud, you don't seem the type to lead me astray for fun)
oldhouseguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2011, 07:25 PM   #37
Tileguy
 
Bud Cline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,716
Default

Bathroom Tub surround.


You won't need any cement board of any kind. If the tiles are tight and no serious cracks anywhere and the grout isn't crumbling then it is very likely safe to install new tile directly over the old.

You would want to scuff (ruin) the old tile surface everywhere you can. A good modified thinset will work for the new tiles but an even safer-bet for thinset is to buy a good "unmodified thinset" and the compatible additive and make your own "modified thinset".

The problem is going to be the cure time of the new tile. Curing will be slow and you may not be back on the tile to grout it for a few days. I've even heard a few weeks but that has never been my experience in all my years. The longest I ever waited was about four days.

The only other way to speed up the curing is to use "Rapid Set" thinset. It costs more and is usually slower to install but it will likely have you back in there to grout in twenty-four hours.
Bud Cline is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2011, 01:54 PM   #38
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 309
Default

Bathroom Tub surround.


Here is where I am...

I started scraping the floor, because as I said, there was 1/4 inch plywood glued to the original floor.

I am not sure if this is considered subway tile or not?

It seems more like a marble type tile.

Here is a photo which shows the scraping underway. The gluey mess part is before I got to it.

You can see the floor is really interesting looking. There is a 20% chance I am going to try to save this floor. I am not sure if it can be saved or not. I figure in order to tile over it, I have to get it clean and then rough it up.

So I might as well give it a shot. has a very vintage look to it, no tiles are cracked that I can see yet.


oldhouseguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2011, 03:30 PM   #39
Tileguy
 
Bud Cline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,716
Default

Bathroom Tub surround.


That's not subway tile.
That is a vintage mosaic. Based on the other photos of your house I've seen floating around (here) I would say they are also old fashion porcelain tiles.

You are doing the right thing cleaning them but now that I know they are not subway tiles I will tell you that scuffing them if they are porcelain isn't going to happen very easily so don't get discouraged when it doesn't.

Now I am narrowing the scope of what thinset you should use and I suggest you either make your own modified thinset as described above or use rapid set thinset. My suggestion is to use Kerabond mixed with Keralastic from Mapei International.
Bud Cline is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2011, 03:35 PM   #40
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 309
Default

Bathroom Tub surround.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bud Cline View Post
That's not subway tile.
That is a vintage mosaic. Based on the other photos of your house I've seen floating around (here) I would say they are also old fashion porcelain tiles.

You are doing the right thing cleaning them but now that I know they are not subway tiles I will tell you that scuffing them if they are porcelain isn't going to happen very easily so don't get discouraged when it doesn't.

Now I am narrowing the scope of what thinset you should use and I suggest you either make your own modified thinset as described above or use rapid set thinset. My suggestion is to use Kerabond mixed with Keralastic from Mapei International.
What if I can get them clean so well that we decide to keep the vintage floor? Could I just clean and clean and clean them and then reseal it somehow?

I can not state enough how good of shape they are in. There are 5500 tiles in the design. They really appear hard and flat like marble. You know more than me about this, but it is really, really square edges on the stuff.

Tiny, tiny grout lines too.

I am going to clean it the same as you see either way, so I am thinking it would be such a cool look, and it is flush with the hardwood in the hallways, so that really looks sharp.
oldhouseguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2011, 03:52 PM   #41
Tileguy
 
Bud Cline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,716
Default

Bathroom Tub surround.


I doubt they are marble. You seem to think marble is "hard" but marble is one of the softest of all the tiles out there. If they were marble you wouldn't be getting that clean.

I really think they are porcelain. If they are porcelain, you won't be sealing them either and the adhesive you are cleaning off right now has already sealed the tiny grout lines so I wouldn't worry about it. Porcelain is what's hard not marble but everyone likes to say "marble" because they think it is exotic-sounding.

If you are happy with your results that's all that matters.

Are the black tiles really black in color?
Bud Cline is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2011, 04:07 PM   #42
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 309
Default

Bathroom Tub surround.


Yes they are pretty black. I am trying to think of how to describe how black. They are so black, boy I don't know how to describe blackness in the written word.

I guess when I think of porcelain, I think of a glaze on it?

This isn't glazed, it seems to be from the edges I can see around the perimeter that it has uniform color throughout.

Hell, I don't know why I think marble. You are probably right, but I just know whatever it is, is very smooth feeling and really hard uniform edges to it.

The weird adhesive that he used to put down the plywood is really hard and I can scrape it off. It however takes forever going tile by tile.

I say marble because it is so uniform and so square and appears like the base of a vintage trophy.
oldhouseguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2011, 04:13 PM   #43
Tileguy
 
Bud Cline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,716
Default

Bathroom Tub surround.


Quote:
I guess when I think of porcelain, I think of a glaze on it?
Nope! Porcelain tile of that style and vintage was never glazed that I can recall. It was always just what you describe.

When you think of "porcelain" that is shiny (with a glaze) you are probably thinking of toilets and tubs.

But anyway, you can believe whatever you choose. I haven't steered you wrong yet have I?
Bud Cline is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2011, 04:32 PM   #44
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 309
Default

Bathroom Tub surround.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bud Cline View Post
Nope! Porcelain tile of that style and vintage was never glazed that I can recall. It was always just what you describe.

When you think of "porcelain" that is shiny (with a glaze) you are probably thinking of toilets and tubs.

But anyway, you can believe whatever you choose. I haven't steered you wrong yet have I?

Certainly you have not. I wasn't saying I still believe it is marble, I was giving you the description in my head that led me to thinking that.
oldhouseguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2011, 07:41 PM   #45
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 309
Default

Bathroom Tub surround.


Hey Bud,

What do you think about trying some chemical adhesive remover to help get this glue off?

I am 1/3 of the way done and I can barely type this. Call me a wimp, but this is crazy painful on your hands.

Think I would mess up the tile?

oldhouseguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Wondering if it makes economic sence to replace a bathroom exhaust fan ChrisJJ HVAC 0 06-14-2011 10:36 AM
1886 Eastlake - add upstairs bathroom or expand downstairs bath?? TOTALN00B Plumbing 1 05-14-2011 09:54 PM
How to select appropriate Bathroom Lighting crescentharbor1 Kitchen & Bath Remodeling 1 02-28-2011 09:47 PM
Basement bathroom wiring mess. Little help. trailblazer1229 Electrical 15 02-16-2010 09:29 AM
Bathroom shower surround StevePax General DIY Discussions 0 11-12-2009 12:31 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.