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Old 06-05-2011, 01:01 AM   #1
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badly cut joist help!


Hello there,
I am a new homeowner and just sighed up for this forum. I had an electrician today replacing my existing electrical panel. Apparently he decided to cut through the joist to get them to the new panel. As I checked on his work I noticed the big notch (on the left) and the many holes he drilled to route the wires. It seems to me he just drilled the heck out of it! I expressed my concert about the big notch, but he kinda said that it was at the end part of the joist and did not matter much. Please, from the pictures that I took, tell me how much of a problem I really have, and what should I do?
THANKS,
Nick
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Last edited by nick1979; 06-05-2011 at 01:19 AM.
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Old 06-05-2011, 01:04 AM   #2
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badly cut joist help!


one more pic...
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Old 06-05-2011, 06:48 AM   #3
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badly cut joist help!


Ask your electrical inspector when he stops in to look at that.

IMO, you've narrowed that joist down to about half it's original dimension.

I'm having a hard time understanding why it was notched on the bottom in the first place.
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Old 06-05-2011, 07:18 AM   #4
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I would add a sister 2x8 that extends far enough to the left to be notched and rest on the foundation and extends all the way across the front of the panel and the bottom edge is 2 inches below the bottom edge of the existing joist. Some custom carving of the top edge of the sister would be done to fit around the cables. At least four bolts not all the same distance from the bottom edge of the existing joist would be between the left big notch and the rightmost hole in the original joist as seen in the picture, and at least two bolts to the left of the left big notch.

Is there enough slack in the cables to lower the panel by a few inches? Adding the sister joist will naturally decrease the headroom in front of the panel.
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Last edited by AllanJ; 06-05-2011 at 07:36 AM.
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Old 06-05-2011, 07:37 AM   #5
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badly cut joist help!


I would add a sister 2x8 that extends far enough to the left to be notched and rest on the foundation and extends all the way across the front of the panel and the bottom edge is 3 inches below the bottom edge of the existing joist. Some custom carving of the top edge of the sister would be done to fit around the cables. At least four bolts would be between the left big notch and the rightmost hole in the original joist as seen in the picture, and at least two bolts to the left of the left big notch.

It would be a structural inspector as opposed to an electrical inspector who could better evaluate the joist.
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Old 06-05-2011, 02:14 PM   #6
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Don't see the reason for that slotted notch - it's not used.
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Old 06-05-2011, 06:59 PM   #7
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"Don't see the reason for that slotted notch - it's not used"

It may be where the service cable was before the new box was installed? The hole looks fresh though.
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Old 06-05-2011, 07:05 PM   #8
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The notch is the issue, I wouldn't be concerned with the holes.
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Old 06-05-2011, 08:18 PM   #9
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Quote:
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"Don't see the reason for that slotted notch - it's not used"

It may be where the service cable was before the new box was installed? The hole looks fresh though.

The problem with the notch is they poorly planned the routing of the 200 Amp wire and made a hole, then cut it into a notch to get it out and put in into a new whole... now I am left with the unused notch... In other words what they did was cut first, think later... and now my joist is screwed.
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Old 06-05-2011, 11:22 PM   #10
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badly cut joist help!


Why such a BIG hole for the service wire? Wow, you could fit 2 or 3 of em in that hole.
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Old 06-06-2011, 12:20 AM   #11
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badly cut joist help!


Quote:
Originally Posted by nick1979 View Post
one more pic...

Code has specs for drilling and notching joists. Looks like he didn't even come close to meeting that.

Notches should be no more than 1/6 the depth of the joist. That notch looks like it's well over 1/3 the depth of the joist. Holes should not be drilled closer than 2" from the edges of the joist. The big hole for the service cable is much closer to the top than 2".
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Old 06-06-2011, 01:19 PM   #12
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You can mend a joist by placing wood on either side. The length/size of the mending piece I would have to look up from my Structural Wood class. It would also require a certain number of bolts, the correct number I can not quote off the top of my head. In your situation, mending the board looks impracticable. To properly mend it, the wires would have to be removed, the beam mended, and then new holes drilled through the mend and the beam. One issue with this approach would be that the new holes probably arent going to be in the same location as the old, further interfering with the beam. Right now, the beam appears to be holding.

What is the spacing between the beam in question and the beam directly above the electrical box?

It appears that this is located in the basement in an unfinished/partially finished portion. You could build a "closet" around the electrical box. With 2x4's placed in a proper configuration creating a wall directly under the beam. I would make sure that the vertical 2x4s were wedged as tight as possible. This may be impracticable due to the proximity of the beam with respect to the front of the electrical box. You could frame the support wall similar to a window, creating an opening for the box or even like a doorway. Space could be a major problem with this idea.
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Old 06-06-2011, 02:04 PM   #13
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badly cut joist help!


thank you for the suggestions. It seems my best bet is to call a friend who is a framer/carpenter and have him fix what the electrical guys screwed. In this case, should I demand a discount from the agreed price? I feel I should as I will have to pay extra to get this fixed by my carpenter. What do you think?
Thanks
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Old 06-06-2011, 03:47 PM   #14
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Has it been inspected?
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Old 06-06-2011, 04:04 PM   #15
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I'd go for more than a discount. The hole for the entrance cable is too close to the top of the joist and way too big. The hole at the right is too close to the bottom and the notch is just stupidity. He should pay you for installing that panel.

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