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Old 08-15-2009, 04:05 PM   #1
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Attaching partition wall to ceiling


I am building a partition wall across floor joists to a vaulted ceiling. The position that I want to set the wall is between ceiling joists. Do I need to block between the joists for a non-load-bearing wall, or can I just attach the header to the sheetrock?
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Old 08-15-2009, 05:43 PM   #2
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Attaching partition wall to ceiling


I'd definitely recommend against that. You're going to be applying drywall to the new walls anyway? It's not much more effort to make a nice 3-1/2" ,or whatever size your top plate is going to be, cut in your ceiling to stick in some nailers between joists. If you're applying new drywall to the walls you'll have to tape the corners anyway, unless of course you're going to cover the corners with crown or something. Stepping back, I'm assuming your wall is of more than 3-6 feet in length, constructed of 2x4? Some short partitions, for example the front of a closet, may be left floating with no direct attachment to the ceiling, but such cases usually have an adjoining perpendicular wall section attached with overlapping double top plates which IS connected to the ceiling. Long story short, probably not a good idea based on what limited information you provide.
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Old 08-15-2009, 06:01 PM   #3
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Attaching partition wall to ceiling


Thanks NailedIt. That's what I suspected, but I wanted to save some work if it was not necessary.
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Old 08-16-2009, 03:18 PM   #4
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Attaching partition wall to ceiling


Yeah, there's no real way to securely attach a top plate do drywall without some sort of backing lumber. Any sort of bumping into the wall or even just normal lumber "movement" will eventually crack the tape at least at the top and inside wall angles....
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Old 08-16-2009, 10:17 PM   #5
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Attaching partition wall to ceiling


Demmet,

To add my .02 worth here is an idea to give you some teeth and get a little more support for that wall. IMHO you don't have to tie in the framing to the joists as all it is going to be is to support a little sheetrock. Now if this is going to be a more significant wall then you may want to consider tying it in to the joists.

But I am going to go under the assumption that this is a small wing wall with not much to it for conversation sake. I would go off of nailed its recommendation and to give you an idea of what I would do to get that backer in.

I would first of all start with scraping any popcorn texture off the ceiling back about 2 feet from each side of the new walls location. That way I could just go ahead with the project and not have to worry about this part at a later time or worry about any of the popcorn interfering with my marking or line transferring. You will need to tape in this location and if your ceiling IS pop corned you will have to remove it and re texture, unless as someone said earlier you are going to put up crown.

1) I would figure out first of all where my wall was going to be and mark it out on the floor.

2) I would shoot up with a laser plumb bob or plumb up to the ceiling one side of my framing and then mark that on the ceiling.

3) i would cut with a drywall saw, handsaw or key hole saw a 2" wide slit running the length of the "top plate" 3/4" in from each edge of the new "top plate" so I could feed my backer boards through. I wouldn't worry if my sheetrock was floppy at this point but I would be careful not to break the ceiling sheetrock.

4) I would then cut 12" long chunks of 2x4 and insert them through the slit that I cut and give them a 90 degree turn so that they are now perpendicular to the slit and secure them with drywall screws all the way out to their ends in a W screw pattern. If you go much longer you are going to run into some length issues that may make this frustrating to say the least unless you are going to be tying these into the framing and then you are going to need to get up into the attic to accomplish this job and some of these instructions may or may not apply. I would space these backer boards 16" on center or if this wall you are building is short then put them 12" on center but whatever you do ensure there is significant backers up there to hold the wall.

5) Start building your wall and tie it in through the backer boards. Your top plate is now going to cover that slit and voilą you have a wall! Now drywall, tape, texture paint and you are in business. Be careful when you cut that slit in the ceiling that you do not cut any live wires or plumbing that may be above! Also wear eye protection to protect your eyes from falling debris such as drywall dust or blown in insulation.

Good luck and be safe! I hope that this helps
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Old 08-17-2009, 07:24 PM   #6
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Attaching partition wall to ceiling


So the blocks are floating, attached to the ceiling and the new wall's framing. When the cathedral rafters flex (lift) won't that cause cracks in the tapped joint of wall/ceiling? A much better solution is to cut back the ceiling, as mentioned, and install framing blocks (16 or 24" on center) to tie the wall and ceiling together. Transferring any loads or wind flex, expansion, contraction, etc. to the framing. With no screws in the ceiling drywall- into the ceiling backing, letting the ceiling float at the wall/ceiling junction so as not to get cracks. From the drywall manufacturer:


"4.9.1 The floating angle method of application shall be permitted
to be used to minimize the effects of truss uplift and the
possibility of fastener popping in areas adjacent to wall and
ceiling intersections. This method is applicable where either
single nailing, double nailing, or screw attachment to wood
framing is used. (See Figures 3, 4, and 5)
4.9.2 Ceiling-Wall Intersections. (See Figures 3 and 4)

Pictures on page 6, here: http://www.gypsum.org/pdf/GA-216-07.pdf"


Be safe, G
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Old 08-18-2009, 11:08 PM   #7
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Attaching partition wall to ceiling


I did this really long reply to you and then clicked submit and the system kicked me out so here is a shorter reply.

I worked up a rendering for you and you need to determine if this approach works or not. If possible you will need to add blocking down the inside of your wall to secure your new walls framing to as well. The black dots you see in the video are fasteners and to see explainations of different elements in the rendering please mouse over the highlighted boxes.

You will need to determine whether or not this works for you as well as determine if you need to tie the backing/ blocking in the ceiling to the existing joists or not. I can not determine if you will need to do this or not so it is entirely up to you.

You will also need to determine how to secure the bottom plate to the existing floor but I don't think that will be too toough.

This is simply a rendering for your consideration and implys no design or architectural approval. Please review this with a licensed professional prior to use of this design to see if it complies with building codes in your area.

Just a little disclaimer for you, lol.

Take care and be safe and normally I put renderings on my site but I will put this one on my you tube channel and if themood moves you you sure can visit me at my website to see some of my other renderings. This is not an attempt to sell any products or services this is simply a rendering for your consideration.

Good luck and be safe and here is that link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ws0kYAmqe1A
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Last edited by Paragon; 08-18-2009 at 11:08 PM. Reason: was broken up into goofy code
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