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Old 07-28-2010, 04:40 AM   #1
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Adjusting Cabinet Saw Trunnions


Can someone tell me how to properly move a cabinet saw's trunnions?

I am unable to align my Rigid R4511 table saw's top so as to reduce right side heel at the rear of the blade to less than .020"; a fact I only realized on getting my hands on a TS-Aligner Jr. All I can think is that the trunnions shifted during shipping. I doubt that I have done anyting during the 6 months I have had it that would account for the shift and believe that I originaly did a poor job of truing the top to the blade with an inexpenive macinist square.

Normaly, the mitre channel is aligned to the blade by losening the bolts secuing the table top to the cabinet, but my top doesn't have enough play in it. One guy with the same saw with the same problem almost dropped his motor when he loosened the trunnions. After moving them he was able to adjust the top to the blade by tapping the table top.

Doe anyone know anything about this?

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Old 07-28-2010, 06:45 AM   #2
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Adjusting Cabinet Saw Trunnions


Do you have a link to the saws manual? Cabinet saws usually are adjusted by moving the top--
Contractor saws are usually adjusted by moving the trunnion---

You have the granite top job as I recall--I've never looked at the guts on one of those---a picture or line will help.

----Mike---P.S. Nice to hear from you again!

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Old 07-28-2010, 02:32 PM   #3
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Adjusting Cabinet Saw Trunnions


Hey, Oh,Mike:

The manual is of no help, but it is here: http://woodwork.homeip.net/Ridgid_R4511_UM.pdf

As you can see, the top is supposed to be aligned to the blade just like most cabinet saws. the way you described. (Instructions are on page 41). The problem seems to be that the renge the top can be moved is limited.

The limiting factor should be and seems to be the points at which the outer edges of the top's 4 "hex head screw" abut the inner edges of the the cabinet's screw holes.

Others with the same problem have posted that they had to do one of two things to bring their saws into alignment. Either file out the screw holes or move the trunnions enough so that final alignment can be perofrmed by tapping the top.

I am hesitant to mess with the trunnions as I am concerned that I could get them out of alignment with each other, if that is possible. One guy who fixed the same problem on his r4511 reported that he almost dropped the motor when he made the mistake of loosening bout trunnions at the same time.

When I first got the saw, I did the filing out the hole thing and thought that the blade was close enough to parallel. Now that I have a ts-aligner jr, I see that the saw is still off by .020". I don't think anything had shifted since that tuning but seem to recall that I thought it was set close enough per my $10 machinist square.

Whatcha think? Just file those holes out some more or move the trunnions?

When I origninally called the distirbutor's tech dept, they sent me some shims that I believe are only used to correct parralelism of the beveled blade to the trunnion plane.

OT: How are things? I hope they are well'

UPDATE:

Called tek support for One World Technologies. This time I got someone who seemed knowledgeable and listened carefully. Her super agreed with her. They do not think the problem is due to the trunnions haveing shifted. They suspect that, while measuring alignment front and rear blade alilgnment to the same spot on the blade should cancel out the impact of blade warpage, I know that the blade I have is badly warped and it is possible that a badly warped blade could be throwing the heel measurement off. I was asked to remeasure alignment with the blade I told them I have on order. If the saw can then not be better aligned, they suspect the problem may be with the trunnion mechanism and not just its mounting. She also asked me to reset the 90 degree stop screw. (I had taken it out to ensure that it wasn't intgerfering.)

Last edited by Klawman; 07-28-2010 at 03:28 PM. Reason: UPDATE PER CALL WITH TEKKIE
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Old 07-28-2010, 04:00 PM   #4
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Adjusting Cabinet Saw Trunnions


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Originally Posted by Klawman View Post
I know that the blade I have is badly warped and it is possible that a badly warped blade could be throwing the heel measurement off.
It really should not matter if the blade is slightly warped if you are taking your measurements from the same point on the blade, but I would wait until you have a blade with minimal runout. How did the blade get warped?

You may have maxed out the slots in the rear of the base. Can you move the front of the table away from the blade?
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Old 07-28-2010, 07:14 PM   #5
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Adjusting Cabinet Saw Trunnions


When I first got the saw and finished setting it up late at night, I couldn't wait to try a cut. I ran a 2x through a foot or so before I realized that the fence was far from down. The blade heated right up, the wood jambed and the motor stalled. I think that warped the blade, which fortunately was the not so good Rigid blade that came with the saw.

Looking on the bright side of things, my saw has been cutting pretty well with the warped blade and I also discovered and adjusted a fence that was .012" out to the right rear.

The new blade I ordered is coming from New York, is now in Illinois and should be here in CA in a few days. It will be sweet if the problem is just the blade, but I doubt that is it.

The tech said that rotating the blade so as to measure rear and back from the same spot doesn't always work. Sometimes a blade is warped so as to still affect blade runout.

When I move the rear of table as far to the right as possible, the front moves to the left.

JHaave been painting the house today and will now to get an even better look at just what is going on.; especially as to how much clearance each hex screw hole has.
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Old 07-29-2010, 06:42 AM   #6
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Adjusting Cabinet Saw Trunnions


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Originally Posted by Klawman View Post
Looking on the bright side of things, my saw has been cutting pretty well with the warped blade and I also discovered and adjusted a fence that was .012" out to the right rear.
All of your measurements are based on a warped blade and I wouldn't be making any changes until you receive the new one. You usually rip with the fence to the right of the blade and I would leave it at the .012" out to the right to help minimize kick back.
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Old 07-29-2010, 05:24 PM   #7
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Adjusting Cabinet Saw Trunnions


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Originally Posted by 47_47 View Post
All of your measurements are based on a warped blade and I wouldn't be making any changes until you receive the new one. You usually rip with the fence to the left of the blade and I would leave it at the .012" out to the right to help minimize kick back.
Actually, the fence measurement is independent of the blade, as I measure it from the mitre groove. I now have it set so it is .001" heel right. Now that I think of it, I should change my ripping techinque.

I am right handed but have been ripping with the fence to the right of the blade. Not only would it probably be easier and safer if the fence was set to the left side, then there would be more table surface available to support wide stock.

As for waiting for the new blade, while I don't think the blade is making a difference, becasue it possibly could, I will force myself to sit on my hands until it gets here since I want it as accurate as possible. Hopefully, accuracy will help to minimize the booboos resulting from lack of skills. . (I am like a kid waiting for a new bicycle. Per UPS it will be here no later than Monday.)
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Old 07-30-2010, 04:42 AM   #8
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Adjusting Cabinet Saw Trunnions


I aligned the saw pretty well without messing with the trunnions. Basically, the fix was enlarging the holes used to bolt the table to the top of the cabinet. A lot of people with this particular saw had to do that.

In my case I still couldn't align the saw although it looked as thought the holes had been enlarged sufficientlty. I finally figured out that the thick washers the top bolts used prevented the bolts from moving over as far as the enlarged holes would allow. The fix was to grind about 1/16" off of one side of two washers. Suddenly, the top was easily tapped as far as needed and then some.

Anyone with a Rigid r4511 should take the advice of the Tek support people at One World Technologies, who insist that the 90 degree stop screw be set before aligning the top. That is well, since you want to make sure the blade is verical when adjusting the top to the the blade. However, with the stop set the top has a tendencey to pivot on it. I recommend setting the blade to 90 degrees, locking the tilt wheel down, and then backing the 90 degree stop off a turn or two to ensure that the tip of the stop doesn't interfere with aligning the top. After the top is aligned, reset the 90 degree stop.

I still have to allign the top with the blade set at 45 degrees and then check to see if the 90 degree setting changed, but will wait to do that after my new blade arrives. Meanwhile, the top is set with .001" of right heel. Me happy.
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Old 07-30-2010, 04:55 AM   #9
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Adjusting Cabinet Saw Trunnions


Quote:
Originally Posted by 47_47 View Post
All of your measurements are based on a warped blade and I wouldn't be making any changes until you receive the new one. You usually rip with the fence to the left of the blade and I would leave it at the .012" out to the right to help minimize kick back.
Thinking about this, if a fence heeling to the right is on left of the blade, wouldn't it tend to promote kickback?
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Old 07-30-2010, 07:50 AM   #10
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Adjusting Cabinet Saw Trunnions


Klawman, I corrected my post to rip with the fence to the right of the blade. Sorry about my . Mike
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Old 07-30-2010, 02:03 PM   #11
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Adjusting Cabinet Saw Trunnions


Good to hear that most rip with the fence to the right and not left, as that is how I normally cut but you had me thinking I had to get used to it being on the left. What you are now saying about reducing kickback makes sense but isn't .012" heel away from the blade a bit much. I think I have seen where some advocate half as much, others a couple of thousandths, and then there are some purists that set the fence with zero heel. As my equipment is only rated for .001" accuracy, I thought I would set the back of the fence .001" to the right of its front. Then it may be as great as .002" to the right but may be as little as .001" to the right. Either way it is close to parallel and there should be no pressure tending to pinch the piece against the blade.
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Old 07-30-2010, 02:18 PM   #12
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Adjusting Cabinet Saw Trunnions


Yes, mine is set @.005". You adjust the rip fence to your blade. Do you like your saw? I have to get one for work and I'm not about to bring my sawstop ICS31230 in.
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Old 07-30-2010, 03:03 PM   #13
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Yes, mine is set @.005". You adjust the rip fence to your blade. Do you like your saw? I have to get one for work and I'm not about to bring my sawstop ICS31230 in.
Interesting that you have a sawstop at home. That is anything but a bargain basement equipment.

I really like my Rigid r4511 but I don't know if I would buy it if it was for work, and that would depend on the type of work I was doing. (I only got it for doing things around the house.) Still, I have a pretty good idea what others are saying about it, and most love it.

Pros
Wired for either 110 or 220. (Comes set for 110 and is easily and quickly rewired for 220).
granite top doesn't rust or warp, which can be a big plus depending on your climate.
modest cost (got mine on sale for $299. Regular price was $599.)
minimal vibration.
fairly easily moved about the garage/shop on hercules caster lift system
Has a a true riving knife. A low profile riving knive can be had in the after market and I believe.

Cons
cannot use magnetic accessories on granite top
front and reat fence rails are two sections. Some complain of a bump where the mate. I have no problem.
Motor is light (1.5 HP) and I do not believe it can be uprgraded. Hence I am going to a thin kerf blade. Some want a full kerf and a 3 HP motor.
There aren't a lot of accessories that easily bolt to the saw, such as afterfeed tables and router tables.
Accesories such as extension tables aren't easily attached to the table since it is granite. It isn't as easily drilled and tapped as is steel.
It has a 3 peice table, consisting of the table and two wings. It is sllighlty tricky to set them level, but really not that difficult. I could do it with not too much hassle.
The granite can be chipped and some tops have developed cracks, but that doesn't seem to be a problem if one is just a bit careful not to abuse it. (Granite can be repaired.) This could be a problem in a busy production environment.

These were closed out by Home Depot 6 months ago, but I believe are still available online through Home Depot.Can. Just the other day I saw that there were 6 factory reconditioned ones on Ebay for about $450.

Depending on your needs at work, some people suggest a used Unisaw.

The best thread I know of on the R4511 is one where it is reviewed by purplev on lumberjock's. http://lumberjocks.com/reviews/781

Some have problems with the fence deflecting when locking down. Most lilke the fence. It isn't top line but a good fence.

In sum, I think I got a hell of a buy for my needs as a homeowner/hobbyist. I think it would be great for professional use for occasional cuts, but question if it is the best thing for production.

If you wan't to talk about it in detail, send me a PM with a phone number.

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