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Old 11-26-2011, 09:48 PM   #76
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Lots of BS in this post....

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Originally Posted by RedHelix View Post
IT professionals refer to Apple technology as a "walled garden." Meaning, it is beautiful and pretty and in perfect harmony and whatnot, but you are within the confines of one vendor's product.
Funny, "walled gardens" are usually the best when reliability and availability are concerned. It's why mainframes, HP/UX, AIX, etc are used when reliability and availability are paramount. It's why companies will standardize on, say Cisco gear instead of, say HP, Cisco, and others.

Funny how the "walled garden" is bad for PC's but OK for netcomm, telecom, etc....

Not to mention companies will tie themselves to the most expensive part - the software (Windows) so they are not tied to a hardware vendor. Makes 0 sense. Let's tie ourselves to a software company (Microsoft) so we can use anyone's hardware. But they forget that hitching to one vendor in the hardware space is just as bad as hitching to a hardware vendor. It's often the software that has the highest support costs and Windows has about the highest support costs out there.

Quote:
Want to install new apps on your iPhone? Go to the App store. Do you need something that's not listed? Too bad!
Except Apple lets companies write and distribute their own apps.

Here you go:
http://www.apple.com/iphone/business/apps/in-house/

Quote:
Want to use your iPad on a big screen? Plug it in, and hope your monitor supports that particular resolution. Not working? Too bad!
Cause 720p and/or 1080i/p are that hard to support.

Quote:
Record something on your Sony Handicam, and you want to sync it in iTunes? Good luck buddy!
Ok, you got me there. You have to import it to iMovie then send it to iTunes. But you probably want to edit it anyway and that's where iMovie is used. Works fine and even works with AVCHD cameras and D8/DV cameras.

Quote:
Buy a new thumb drive that uses encryption, only to find out it doesn't work on the Mac? Too bad!
You should be reading the boxes. There are those that support encryption and Macs. Or use TrueCrypt which is cross platform - Mac, PC, and Linux.

Quote:
Ever see those new digital signs in shopping malls that play back video? Windows.
Yeah and the BSOD's on them are all over the Web.

Quote:
Self-checkout machines? Windows.
Half of the video signs in Times Square? Yup, Windows.

If you're not cut out for a complex system like Windows, that's fine.
The reason for that is because Windows machines are cheaper. You can get a $100 Atom box that will run some low rez screen on Times Square (those while big are low resolution). Same for the other stuff. You can purpose build a dirt cheap Windows box but the software is still the same old POS known as Windows.

And a lot of that stuff is migrating to Linux. They get better reliability, lower support costs, and have the wide hardware support like Windows.

You have your opinions but a lot of it is just BS and not facts at all.


Last edited by itguy08; 11-26-2011 at 09:52 PM.
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Old 11-27-2011, 05:07 PM   #77
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What bothers me about Apple:

- You have to do things the way they want you to do them. No SD card slot? Might I not want to transfer some pics from a digital SLR to my phone on a trip to e-mail? Sorry.

- No Flash player? We all know the world is going to HTML5 but why haven't Apple users been able to view the majority of web video for years? Sorry again.

- Convince eveyone that they need "apps" even of all they do is connect to a web page. Used to be called a bookmark, now an app??

- Stupid Apple advertising that says you aren't cool if you don't partake. One of the first lessons I learnt as a child was to not use or buy into that crap line of thinking.

- I keep hearing from Applenistas that look, the other guys are starting to do the same things. If so, that just means Apple has managed to dumb down the user population and lower expectations.... not a good thing. But who can blame them when they can save $10 per unit mfg costs by elimintaing a SD card slot that anyone coming from Apple has no idea how to use.

I will not be assimilated!
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Old 11-27-2011, 05:47 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raylo32 View Post
What bothers me about Apple:

- You have to do things the way they want you to do them. No SD card slot? Might I not want to transfer some pics from a digital SLR to my phone on a trip to e-mail? Sorry.
Get an SD card reader and plug it in. Yes you can buy any number of PC machines that are tricked out like swiss army knives. If Apple thought that it was important to their buyers, they would put it in. After all, they actively court the home user market and the video/photo market.

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Originally Posted by raylo32 View Post
- No Flash player? We all know the world is going to HTML5 but why haven't Apple users been able to view the majority of web video for years? Sorry again.
Well given the fact that Adobe just ceased development of mobile Flash it's now a moot point. And Apple users on laptop and desktops never had a problem viewing Flash. It was only mobile devices. Jobs had a very well articulated reason for it so I'll let him answer your specific question as to why:

http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/

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Originally Posted by raylo32 View Post
- Convince eveyone that they need "apps" even of all they do is connect to a web page. Used to be called a bookmark, now an app??
I don't follow you. I have an iPhone...using the native browser I can bookmark any site and then call it up later from a list of bookmarks, OR I can turn the bookmark into a tile on the "desktop". I don't need an app to view a site. If a third party developer creates an app for viewing certain message boards, like this one, to optimize it for using the site on a small screen that's between them and the user. I can still use a browser to view any site I please.

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Originally Posted by raylo32 View Post
- Stupid Apple advertising that says you aren't cool if you don't partake. One of the first lessons I learnt as a child was to not use or buy into that crap line of thinking.
Apple advertising is certainly aspirational, there is no doubt about that. But then again so is advertising for virtually every other consumer technology product that I can think of. If you don't buy a product because you don't like their ads I think you are sort of cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Quote:
Originally Posted by raylo32 View Post
- I keep hearing from Applenistas that look, the other guys are starting to do the same things. If so, that just means Apple has managed to dumb down the user population and lower expectations.... not a good thing.
When I figure out what the hell this even means maybe I'll come back and comment on it.

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Originally Posted by raylo32 View Post
I will not be assimilated!
You already have been.

As I said before, I'm no Apple fanboy. But I find it amusing when people rail mightily against the company and it's products for minor and irrelevant, or flat-out misperceived grievances.
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Old 11-27-2011, 06:26 PM   #79
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Not to get into all that other stuff which I find utterly unconvincing... but why should I have to "go buy a plug in SD card reader?". That's the other thing I hear from Appleheads... you can do <whatever> this other way... that just happens to be a total kludge and usually involves shoveling more $ to Apple.... just to substitute and work around something that should be there in the first place. Ridiculous.

Assimilated... me? Somewhat but not quite the same. Maybe in terms of OS but plenty of different mfgs to choose from to get hardware configured the way I want. Not just what 3 or 4 guys in Cupertino say I need.

[quote=Ironlight;780185]Get an SD card reader and plug it in. Yes you can buy any number of PC machines that are tricked out like swiss army knives. If Apple thought that it was important to their buyers, they would put it in. After all, they actively court the home user market and the video/photo market. =quote]
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Old 11-28-2011, 11:27 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raylo32 View Post
- You have to do things the way they want you to do them. No SD card slot? Might I not want to transfer some pics from a digital SLR to my phone on a trip to e-mail? Sorry.
The new laptops and iMacs do come with SD slots. The 13" Air, 13", 15" Macbook Pros, and all iMacs all have SD card slots in them.

But for me, who's DSLR has a Compact Flash an SD slot is pointless. Or if you shoot Sony who, IIRC still uses Memory stick. Or if you use microSD and forgot your adapter. I always carry a reader. Cheapo no-name that works with all card slots and OS X.


Quote:
- No Flash player? We all know the world is going to HTML5 but why haven't Apple users been able to view the majority of web video for years? Sorry again.
I have it on my Droid X. It's useless. If the video is not "optimized for mobile" you get slow performance and a touch UI that doesn't work quite right. Even Adobe is abandoning it.

Quote:
- Stupid Apple advertising that says you aren't cool if you don't partake. One of the first lessons I learnt as a child was to not use or buy into that crap line of thinking.
No different than Toyota's recent "Trade up" ads where they say "trade up" from a Ford, Hyundai, Chevy, etc. to a 'Yota. No different than BMW selling "The Ultiamte Driving Experience" or Bose with their Waveradio.

If you like the product, buy it. And Apple's more recent ads seem to be focused on the stuff you can do with it rather than the "smugness".

Last edited by itguy08; 11-28-2011 at 11:32 AM.
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Old 11-28-2011, 11:39 AM   #81
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Mac is good for those who like them, but the average computer user doesn't need anything that expensive.
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Old 11-28-2011, 02:34 PM   #82
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I've used both of them.
They both work. I like "PC" compatible; because, they're so easy to upgrade/
build, run multiple OS systems.
Ways around hardware/software conflicts.

RF

(And the cost!)
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Old 11-28-2011, 03:21 PM   #83
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I'm evenly divided. My main machine is a tower PC desktop that I put together myself. I certainly appreciated the flexibility to build what I wanted from an almost endless spectrum of parts from NewEgg. And the fact that the result worked reasonably well and required only a modicum of tweaking and optimization is in truth nothing short of a miracle of standardization.

That said, my wife and kids use Macs. I got tired of playing PC support for all of them and transitioned them to Macs some time ago. And it was the best thing I ever did. It's amazing how Macs "just work" in so many ways. I have been using my wife previous Macbook as she got one from work, and the thing has been running for over a year without ever turning it off. It has not crashed, it has not locked up. Nothing. And while it took me over an hour to get my PC to find the HP laserprinter on our home network, the Macs find it without a problem. The list of similar "ease of use" experiences is pretty long.

My point is, I'm pretty "vendor neutral". I think anyone who finds Apple in someway "irritating" or "annoying" has some issues with the company that have nothing to do with their products or technology. Apple wants to sell computers and product design is always a compromise. If slapping a $5 card reader into their machines is going to sell them more machines then they would do it. I'm fairly certain they don't leave out functionality just to spite their customers.

I will admit to hating going into Apple stores. We have four of them around me and I avoid them like the plague...not because of the products..it's fun to go into the stores. It's the bizarre fandom thing that goes on in them. Makes the hair on the back of my neck stand on end.
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Old 11-29-2011, 06:56 PM   #84
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IMHO, Mac's are pretty and nice if you can afford them. I don't think they're worth the money you have to pay for the little light-up apple, but hey, whatever floats your boat.
It's easy to find a good deal on a PC laptop. Desktop PC's are great because you can build them yourself, which saves you money and you get exactly what you want.
Just my opinion!
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Old 11-29-2011, 06:56 PM   #85
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Quote:
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mac is good for those who like them, but the average computer user doesn't need anything that expensive.
this^
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Old 12-01-2011, 10:42 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rusty baker View Post
Mac is good for those who like them, but the average computer user doesn't need anything that expensive.
I agree.

I used to have a powerbook when I was in collage, It was lent to us by the school. We primarily used it for Final Cut Pro and other Editing applications.
I say If you can afford it and/or need it for work...do it.

But if not, stick to a PC.
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Old 12-01-2011, 11:45 AM   #87
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Kiddos,

I grew up with this, in Silicon Valley, and remain the same age as Gates and the departed Jobs. It is hard to believe but their was no "software" in the early days. Everything was hardware driven and if you have not noticed the paradigm shift, it is swinging back that direction.

The first computer assigned me for almost exclusive use was a thing called ADAM from Logical Machine Corporation. It cost mortals that had to buy one $42,000 or so and was the size of a desk. Nice keyboard, greenish CRT monitor as I remember and disc storage platters about 18 feet in diameter. The machine programming language was total natural language and you could make the thing do just about anything.

Jobs and Woz were still in Palo Alto garages. Gates was talking about packaged software from Albuquerque but nobody was taking him seriously. I think big blue was marching folks in blue suits with ties and perky bows out to custom program, at near machine level, your system 34 for much more than what ADAM cost.

Jobs was not the first person to suggest if you make apps cheap enough, people will not steal them. The holding company for Logical bought the first retail computer chain in this country and was the first dealer to suit Apple. There was a movement, for a time, when we expected printed manuals for nice software from operating system on to special stuff was bundled for $20-40.

Now? Apple or PC? I am honest and buy and maintain licenses. Because, yes, it comforts me to know $2400 I pay covers the assumption I will duplicated and distribute it. Nonsense.

My current computer set-up as is nice as they come for laptop situations. Windows. AMD, not Intel chipped. Most everything loaded on it is open source software and works with that matching clients who have Apple and Linux stuff. I backup encrypted to a cloud. I have used the DVD drive like twice since I have had this.

Nearest Apple machine that does half what I ask this to do was three times the price. And then I find myself held hostage to parts. It really is like a dogmatic religion. You have to be it all without question if you go with Apple.

My cell phone is cheap Chinese but cute. If I run it through a washing machine I will not cry that I am out $400 and stuck with 18 months on a contract. And, I know you can get iPhones on other than AT&T network now but that was the worst wireless carrier in the country for a time.

I pay $55/month for everything including free music downloads. My stupid little thing is also a music player. I only get 1,000 talk minutes but the device is Skype capable so I use it with my also, no contract, 4G hot spot.

You have to decide what devices fit you. I don't need name brand crap to look cool. Technology for me will always be about sheet metal screwed together black boxes. What I am willing to pay for design over that is personal choice.

I don't see evolutionary design changes in Apple products WOW enough to justify the cost.
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Old 12-04-2011, 10:33 AM   #88
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That is one of my hobbies, too. Gotta love NewEgg... they are sort of the Amazon of PC parts. Order the stuff, and a couple days later it's here. Assemble it in less than an hour and good to go. Quality parts makes great PCs and every one I have built is still running (one 24/7 for security cam and HTPC duty) except one I built last Chrsitmas for my nephew. He managed to spill a beer into it and killed the video card. :-/

Really good to be able to customize like my main tower for gaming and general use... very powerful with a substantial video card. Then the HTPC built for low power requirements and 24/7 operation with Intel onboad CPU graphics... draws like 40 watts total whilst running the cam software, maybe a bit more streaming HD video. Easy to build something that precisely suits the need.


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I'm evenly divided. My main machine is a tower PC desktop that I put together myself. I certainly appreciated the flexibility to build what I wanted from an almost endless spectrum of parts from NewEgg. And the fact that the result worked reasonably well and required only a modicum of tweaking and optimization is in truth nothing short of a miracle of standardization.

Last edited by raylo32; 12-04-2011 at 10:39 AM.
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Old 12-05-2011, 01:46 PM   #89
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In all seriousness, those that are saying Macs are too expensive, what did you pay for your computer? Everyone likes to point to the $300 specials but few use them. Outside of those that built your own, how much do you pay for a laptop or desktop? When people ask me for a computer I say get a Mac or if you must go Windows, bypass the low end and spend about $7-1000 on a machine. The more expensive Windows machines are built a little better, have better specs, and parts, etc.

For a tinkerer, sure, the PC will give you limitless options. I was "That guy" a while ago. But I grew tired of the endless tweaking, obsessing over CPU, RAM speed, video card, and the constant upkeep of Windows. In 2002 I plopped $1900 for an iMac (top of the line). Never looked back. I plop my $$ down, walk out with an Apple and am good for 3-6 years. I'm using one of the original unibody Macbook Pro's (2008) and have no intention of a new computer for a while. The wife is still on an original 1st gen dual core white Macbook (2006). Probably get her something next year. Not because the machine is dead but because it looks like hell, the battery is dead, hd is almost full, and it will be 6 years old....

Giving up on the PC "hobby" and junk meant more time doing stuff around the house, more time with the wife, and no more PC support for me. All of which is a good thing since I deal with Windows' BS all day for my day job.
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Old 12-06-2011, 11:43 AM   #90
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If you haven't done this for awhile you might be surprised how little tinkering is required. Honestly the most time consuming part if you aren't current is getting up to speed on the CPU and socket differences so you can pick compatible mobos and memory. Having done that, everything just plain works. You can tinker if you want but not necessary at all. Most of the Windows issues you cite are caused by all the crap that mfgs load onto their PCs. DIY all you have on the desktop when you start up is a recycle bin icon. Pretty refreshing.


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For a tinkerer, sure, the PC will give you limitless options. I was "That guy" a while ago..

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