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Jim F 03-30-2010 07:44 PM

I've never owned a Mac. People I know who do say "Once you go Mac you'll never go back." What I do know is that I'm fed up with the constant crashes, viruses, malware etc associated with PC. Both desktops I've owned, our laptop, out kid's laptops have all had problems.

Are Macs really immune? Would love to hear from Mac and PC owners about this.

Scuba_Dave 03-30-2010 07:48 PM

I like Macs from the limited use I've had
Last one I had was OS 8.5
It was an older Mac tower - free

Macs do have problems, there are virus' out there
But the bad guys seem to target microsloth the most

If price were not an problem I would buy a Mac

awoo23 03-30-2010 07:53 PM

I've seen my gf's Macbook Pro crash before. I was surprised too because I thought that they were supposed to be crash-proof too.

The other thing I noticed is that I can't find any of the things I'm used to Windows. Like I couldn't figure out how to find where 'My Computer' was when I tried to print something off of my USB.

I suggest you go to the Apple Store and really test drive one before you spend all that dough.

Leah Frances 03-30-2010 08:45 PM

DH bought me a MacBook Air when he broke my old IBM.

Love it. Love it. Love it.

In 18 months it's crashed maybe three times.
- It always works.
- It's always fast.
- I've never had to de-frag, anti-virus, or undo anything.

Love it. Will never go back. Am saving my pennies for a Mac desktop.

Fox 04-01-2010 11:29 AM

Ok, I'll weigh in on this. There's a lot of overly-emotionally invested opinions on this topic out there, and a lot of people just picking up the opinions of others and then spending a lot of money without thinking much or drawing their own conclusions. As a computer technician for a very long time (and a network security administrator now) I might have a good bit of information for you.

My father is sixty years old and his PC has never crashed, never locked up, never gotten malware or a virus. All he does is check emails and read online newspapers.

My sister screws her's up at least twice a year to the point that I have to format and reinstall it. I'm beginning to think she seeks out malware and downloads it on purpose...

The user has a great deal to do with the system. Mac has rode the "hype train" for a great while as they didn't have a lot of compatibility for a while. (long ago)

The short answer is: Yes, Macs crash. Snow Leopard recently hosed up a friend of mine's Mac. If Macs didn't crash, you wouldn't need the following link:

The difference is quite simple: any programmer who develops code to attack a machine either to simply be malicious or to attempt to infect your machine with software in the hopes it will somehow obtain information (spyware) or get you to buy something (adware) is going to write this code to attack the greatest demographic. Right now PCs still have the largest market share. They probably will for a very long time. So if you run a Windows system and you're not securing it, and being careful about where you're going, (If it looks sketchy, don't click it!) use the right software (Do NOT use Internet Explorer) you'll be fine.

If you buy a Mac will you likely have less software attacking you? Yes. Will you have to learn a completely new way of working a computer? Yes. Will it be annoying? Probably. Does all the same software work on Macs that does on Windows? A lot more than used to. You can also now run Windows on your Mac, and there's always emulation.

Little history lesson here:
Macs long ago used to be high-end hardware that ran operating systems that were fantastic for digital artists, and I saw them as such. As a computer technician at the time, I refused to work on them as they were a nightmare. This wasn't going over incredibly well, and Apple was slipping into oblivion while MS was skyrocketing. I'm not certain how many of you remember this:

I still recall, rather well, when MS kept Apple afloat just because no one else was in the market, and they didn't want split apart in an anti-trust. They finally brought Steve Jobs back into the fold after his little exodus, and despite being a jerk who ripped off Xerox, he knows how to run a company, if mostly from a psychological standpoint. (He understands his customer) This is where I have problems with Apple.

In the same way that I see Facebook as a wonderful social networking tool if you don't get bogged down in all those crappy applications, Mac can be useful tools to accomplish certain tasks if they're built in such a manner. The problem is that a great many Mac users want you to drink their damn kool-aid. Their aggressive marketing campaign and overpriced hardware has targeted the 'elitist' group of customers who seem to purchase items to make themselves feel better about who they are, not just to buy a tool to get work done.

During a long Mac commercial campaign about "Things Mac users can do that PC users can't" was the following running joke amongst technicians:
"The one thing PC users can do that Mac users can't: Shut up."

A great deal of this seemed to be a self-justification by the individual owning the Mac. One of those situations where you turned to look at them and had to say, "Are you trying to convince me, or yourself?"

There's also the long running issue that they tend to value form over function. For a very long time, mice on Macs only had a single button. You had to use a key combination (Apple+<insert key here>) in replace of a simple right click. There are other examples of this that I won't get into. (Mac has since embraced two button mice...for the most part)

PCs are not without their little diva either. SONY has long designed their machines in obnoxiously overpriced and impractical designs, being understood by engineers as "The Mac of the PC world".

All my PCs run Windows XP SP3. (And I administer a sizable network) My routers run Linux. I own no Macs. However, I'm a network security specialist, so I know how to lock down a Windows network. While getting my Master's degree, two of my Computer Security friends going for their Ph.D.s were using Macs. They stated it was for security purposes. They seemed to like them. (Though the school paid for them, and as stated before, they were not without problems)

My significant other is an artist. She cannot stand Macs. She takes great pleasure in accomplishing the exact same things on a PC.

Both can run Windows now, have Intel architectures, and they're starting to look like each other with each new operating system release. Macs break just like PCs, they're just not targeted with as much malware. Try a Mac extensively before you get it if you've never tried them. They're overpriced and over-hyped, but they're still a machine that accomplish a task: It's all about what you want it to do.

Respectfully, someone who keeps driving off the road isn't going to stay on it any better if they switch from a pick-up to Prius. If you're running into a great deal of software issues, perhaps it might be wise to change your computer using habits, rather than your computers?

My recommendation would be to purchase a single copy of some hard drive imaging software. This takes a snap shot of your machine. So you wipe your system clean, get it exactly like you want it with all the software you'd like installed, then you take this snapshot and put it on DVD or an external hard drive. If the machine ever gets messed up, you just take it back to that snapshot. (Make sure you keep all important documents backed up to something like an external drive as well, as the snapshot will erase everything that wasn't in it at the time.)

In the meanwhile, use software like Firefox and Chrome, stay away from questionable sites, don't open attachments from people you don't know, and if they're currently permitted, keep your kids off your system. (Kids seem to seek out malware, I swear.)

I hope this helps,

bigcaddy 04-08-2010 11:15 AM

I love them both. For business, PC, for art, music/design, MAC

for stability. both.

My windows 7 is every bit as stable as my MAC and everything works, just like a MAC. Macs are nice because you'll never have hardware compatibiliy problems but I've never had problems with my 7 box either so it's really up to you which layout you like. I do a bunch of gaming and my job is IT so I stick with PC.

but I do have a mac around for IMovie.

oh and very well said above.. "Are you trying to convince me, or yourself?"

cellophane 04-08-2010 11:45 AM

You could always go for a Linux install ;) Although it suffers from the same flaws as any other OS.

I will agree with bigcaddy - my Windows 7 installs have been fantastic. If you do go PC - get Windows 7.

clb2010 04-08-2010 11:49 AM

Sigh. Allot of misinformation here.

I am going to way over simplify this so for those of you with propellers on your hats please take a step back and view it from that point of view before frothing at the mouth and engaging the flame thrower.

At this time I do not have in depth experience with Windows 7 so I cannot comment on it.

I am OS and platform agnostic. That means that I will use whatever OS and applications let me do my job in the easiest way possible. It has to work, it has to be easy, it has to be safe, it has to be stable, and it has to do what I want it to do when I want it to. I don't care if that's OS X, Windows, or BeOS for that matter. It just has to work.

Security (viri/malware/et al.)
OS X is a BSD Unix derivative with Apple's GUI interface loaded on top. This means that it has been around since the 1970's and its been beaten on quite a bit. This means that it is a much more mature and stable underlying operating system than Windows. It runs in an entirely different way than Windows does in terms of how the operating system functions and interacts with applications. Thus the flaws found in Microsoft software are not there in Unix because of the way it works. Unix by its design is more secure out of the box and by its design is not as vulnerable to viri, malware, etc.

OS X/Mac hold about 5ish percent of the total OS market space. As mentioned above attackers are going to go for the maximum payout for the least amount of calories expended. That means Microsoft for two reasons. Microsoft holds onto 80%+ of the OS market and is notorious for writing poor code ergo the biggest bang for the buck will be to exploit it instead of something like Linux or OS X which is inherently more secure and has less market share.

One of the reason's that Microsoft writes poor code is that they have to be compatible with hundreds of thousands of hardware/software combinations as well as all the legacy code and applications that are out there starting with Windows 3.x and in some cases DOS. Apple has essentially one hardware/software spec and guards its standards like a miser with his gold. The more combinations you add into the mix the more likely someone somewhere is going to do something stupid in terms of coding because they need to "make it work" not "make it secure".

If you do a comparison of an Apple in terms of hardware inside the machine to a comparable machine on the PC side you will find little to no price difference. Macs are no more expensive than a like kind PC

Ease of use:
From a Human Computing Interface standpoint OS X is easier to use (more intuitive) than Windows. Period. Full Stop. Don't believe me? Look up the following: Humane Interface: New Directions for Designing Interactive Systems (ISBN 0-201-37937-6) by Jef Raskin Now cross check Jef Raskin and Apple. You will find your answer.

Windows historically was not well designed from a HCI stanpoint. Much of it is counter intuitive. The user has to be trained in the Windows process. OS X does not have this problem as much as Windows does. It was designed from the ground up to be more intuitive. This is why so many PC users have a problem. They are trained and used to doing things a certain way and then have to unlearn the bad habits and relearn good ones.

Windows, because of the multitude of software/hardware combinations that need to be supported, does not do well with plug and play. As in plug a printer in and it just works. Its gotten better but OS X/Apple still dominates this area. For one of the same reasons why the platform is more secure. There is only one hardware standard and any 3rd party hardware suppliers must subscribe to the Apple way otherwise they don't get to play.

Bottom line:
Figure out what you want to do and what software you need to do that. If the Mac does that for you at a price you find acceptable get the Mac. If not go PC and deal with the problems.

Clutchcargo 04-08-2010 12:07 PM

63 Attachment(s)
clb2010 good writeup.
I disagree about the cost. I found Macs much more expensive for comparable performance.
My wife was a PC user and fell for the Mac advertising.
After 2 years with her Powerbook, she hates it and finds the PC UI much more intuitive.
For connectivity, it took nearly a day to get the Powerbook wirelessly connected and another 3 hours to finally be able to print to the wireless network printer.
My PC on the other hand only took about 10-15 minutes to get networked and find the printer.
If you have a mixed network forget about transferring files between the two.
I'm PC user and I guess a rarity because after a year and half, I have never had a crash with Vista and I never needed to reload windows. It run solid with all my apps (Sony Vegas, Photoshop, and MS Office mostly) and games. Mac on the other hand did need to be rebuilt once.
YMWV but this has been my experience.

clb2010 04-08-2010 12:27 PM


Originally Posted by Clutchcargo (Post 425812)
clb2010 good writeup.
I disagree about the cost. I found Macs much more expensive for comparable performance.

Cheers mate. But key difference is that I said to compare it from a hardware to hardware standpoint. As in find a PC that has the same video chips, mother board, etc. Performance-wise you are right though.


My wife was a PC user and fell for the Mac advertising.
After 2 years with her Powerbook, she hates it and finds the PC UI much more intuitive.
For connectivity, it took nearly a day to get the Powerbook wirelessly connected and another 3 hours to finally be able to print to the wireless network printer.
My PC on the other hand only took about 10-15 minutes to get networked and find the printer.
I believe that the powerbook was a OS 8/9 platform, no? OS X is an entirely different animal. And prior to it I wouldn't go near a Mac. I use it now because of the Unix base. Of course I also use a PC because Autocad doesn't run well under Parallels and I need it to.


If you have a mixed network forget about transferring files between the two.
I'm PC user and I guess a rarity because after a year and half, I have never had a crash with Vista and I never needed to reload windows. It run solid with all my apps (Sony Vegas, Photoshop, and MS Office mostly) and games. Mac on the other hand did need to be rebuilt once.
YMWV but this has been my experience.
On the network side that isn't quite true. Look into file sharing OS X and Windows. Its just a drive mount aka share.

That is good to hear on the Vista side. I actually wiped and reinstalled after 2 painful months with Vista because of the constant problems. I am very hopeful about Windows 7 and look forward to getting to try it out when I can afford to purchase it.

Fox 04-23-2010 01:33 AM


Originally Posted by Clutchcargo (Post 425812)
I'm PC user and I guess a rarity...

Not as much as a great many marketing campaigns would have us believe.

As for intuitive GUIs, I learned on DOS, then PC Shell, and moved to Windows 3.11. It's a long way to go back, and maybe it's because I grew up with these OS, but I don't recall any sharp learning curve.

Raskin allegedly invented the one-button mouse because he thought people would be too stupid to know which of three buttons to click. As an advanced systems user and a fairly intelligent individual, I view that less as intuitive and more as inconvenient and insulting. But then Macs do tend to hold your hands and make sure you don't hurt yourself while Windows gives you enough options that you can break your computer but at least have some control. Linux just expects you to have a great deal of free time but can achieve incredible results.

On a side note (and I'm not going to Google it) I thought I read somewhere that Raskin thought OS X was a step backwards.

Anyway, this article made me think of this thread:

I'm curious to see how Apple starts implementing additional security measures as they gain market share. I'm not sure I'm qualified to make a statement regarding this article's claims, but it'll be interesting to see if Apple maintains security as they become a more tempting target, or fall behind and have to play catch-up when some massive news story about them getting hacked somehow hits the headlines. (Proactive or reactive, basically)

Grofica 04-23-2010 04:51 AM

All i have to say is PC is the shizzy! I LOVE PC... MAC is the devil....

but pictures speak louder then words so here you go... enjoy ha ha ha ha :laughing:

Friends dont let friends use apple products...


PortlandRemodel 04-29-2010 12:20 PM

I've had about 40 Mac's including notebooks and towers and probably more PC's in my other businesses. Mac's are super user friendly and viruses are so rare I do not use any anti-virus and have no concerns. For notebooks, they are much faster than their PC counterparts and integration with applications, ME and backup is very cost effective. There is nothing like in the PC world. The computer I carry around is a mac book pro (with windows on boot camp)

But for database applications and other more specialized business software - especially for construction you can forget running them native on a Mac. I do have some computer tech's who use a Mac and only run windows on them because they are superior notebooks for the money. The cheap notebooks are really junk and should be avoided if you want to do anything but sit and watch them for an hour a day.

The windows server operating system (2003 Server and up) are fabulous and fast operating systems that unfortunately few small business owners get to use. For business applications, the server OS is faster than the mac OS and basically never crashes if you set it up right. My 2003 server hasn't gone down since 2003... (probably should not say that.... &*$#@)

Durt Ferguson 04-29-2010 12:33 PM

I agree with Fox on this one. I have owned both Mac's and PC's, and am proficient with both (work as a SW/Computer engineer). I've never had a problem with either. One thing I will note is that a co-worker of mine had a chip (I don't recall which one, may have been integrated wireless) go on his Mac, and since it was the type where everything is built into the monitor, he would have needed to replace the entire thing if he wanted it to work right. While not uniquely a Mac issue, it is an issue you may run into with the everything-in-the-monitor setup. I used to have problems back in the day when I'd play online games, surf the web more, before anti-virus/internet protection SW was mainstream. Now I haven't had my PC (running XP) crash in the last couple years that I can remember. Most of these issues are brought on by the user, be it viral, poor maintenance, or just mistreating the equipment. If you keep your machine clean (meaning both keeping viruses and malware off it, as well as keeping the insides dust free), do the routine maintenance (have it defrag, scan, cleanup while you're sleeping), and just pay attention to what you're doing, you shouldn't have a problem. My wife's grandfather is 82 years old, and doesn't really know a thing about computers, and has managed to keep his Windows 98 box running great. I like both Mac and PC interfaces, I just think that a PC is a better value for your dollar, and are easier to fix.

Edit : Also, I think it is more difficult for an engineer or a DIY type person to keep a computer running well, since we feel the need to muck with everything :)

PortlandRemodel 05-04-2010 12:48 PM

Do you think that for casual use the Mac program integration through to ME is easier though? **If** someone adopts Apple programs they all work together in a way I haven't seen with any PC platform. My family can get things done with pictures, presentations, or about anything - so long as they stay in the Mac program environment. (without my help!)

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