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Old 07-28-2014, 08:07 AM   #16
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Do unions hold any value?


Not surprising.

We can't even figure out who's lying and get some people arrested in the damn IRS scandal so I doubt anything will come of this.

Hope and change… Hope and change.

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Old 07-28-2014, 09:56 PM   #17
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This is really eye opening to me. I have heard a much different view for a long time. If I tried to have an open discussion like this locally, their would definitely be bloodshed. I still hold out some hope that unions are helping preserve what little is left in this country. It is also my understanding that if you are in the union you have to go to these " voluntary" meetings. Failure to brown nose results in you not working. That friend of mine that acted childish was not fired, but everyone else involved in the "situation" that was non union was immediately fired. One of the people worked for the company for 18 years.
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Old 07-28-2014, 10:12 PM   #18
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Do unions hold any value?


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That's one of the problems, IMO. If you do something childish at work, your employer should have the option to fire your childish a$$. I bet he wasn't "kept on" because his boss just has a good heart. He was kept on because the company didn't feel like fighting with the overpowering union.
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This is really eye opening to me. I have heard a much different view for a long time. If I tried to have an open discussion like this locally, their would definitely be bloodshed. I still hold out some hope that unions are helping preserve what little is left in this country. It is also my understanding that if you are in the union you have to go to these " voluntary" meetings. Failure to brown nose results in you not working. That friend of mine that acted childish was not fired, but everyone else involved in the "situation" that was non union was immediately fired. One of the people worked for the company for 18 years.
My point exactly. Other than union BS "protection", what reason would there be to either not fire anyone, or fire everyone? "the union protects you from unreasonable termination"....well so does doing your F-in job and acting like an adult...and BTW, it obviously wasn't "unreasonable" because they fired everyone else for the same thing...huh?

My comments aren't aimed at you mj12, just making comments. I know you're just passing along a story. Unfair treatment or special treatment tends to piss me off.
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Old 07-29-2014, 07:37 AM   #19
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Do unions hold any value?


jproffer, I have seen a lot get thrown under the bus by the union. But that was usually because the person has burned their bridges on both sides.
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Old 07-29-2014, 08:12 AM   #20
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jproffer, I have seen a lot get thrown under the bus by the union. But that was usually because the person has burned their bridges on both sides.
If that's the case, then it sounds like the bus was long overdue.

All I'm saying is, a non-union employee shouldn't fear for his/her job any more than a union employee. If they both act in the same way or if they both do or fail to do the same thing, they should both be disciplined in the same way. Anything less is just the company fearing the union or not wanting to deal with the hassle of arguing with the union.
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Old 07-29-2014, 08:19 AM   #21
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Do unions hold any value?


If you do your job properly you do not have to worry about being fired. Where I am they have to document everything 3X and give you warning notices or you take them to court for wrongful dismissal.

However if you work for a small company and the Boss is the owner he can just cut your hours or give you less work until you starve. Nobody said life was fair.
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Old 07-29-2014, 09:21 AM   #22
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Do unions hold any value?


Back during the industrial revolution, unions were made up of employees banding together out of necessity and desperation.

Nowadays, unions are a business. When a union tries to recruit a new business (or the employees of it), it is not because they think the employees are downtrodden. It is because they want the $ dues.

The question is:are they gonna be worth it? Others have mentioned corrupt unions, but there is also the general question of quality and who is stronger. Is the contract and protection they negotiate gonna be worth the dues.

I work for Wal-mart, where "union" is spelled with four letters. I wouldn't put money on any union negotiator going against Wal-mart's bank of lawyers.

I have no personal experience with unions, and I haven't done enough research to declare I am totally anti-union, but I think pay and promotions should be based on ability rather than seniority.
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Old 07-29-2014, 10:14 AM   #23
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Do unions hold any value?


From the perspective of someone in management, here is my issue with unions (I have both union and non-union people under me, depending on their job).

If you are in the union, your pay structure is dictated, as what the jobs are. This is good for you if we underpaid from the start, or you were just barely good-enough not to get fired. However, if you do a good job, I can't give you more money or a bonus. If I did, the other unionites would complain and file a grievance that they did not get an equal raise or bonus. So, you get nothing extra. This promotes people to try just hard-enough, and never truly rise-above the rest.

I also had a situation last week, where a union employee is getting buried in work and asked if she could have another (non-union) employee who is less-busy take over some of the duties. Nope, sorry. That would take work away from the union and I'd have a stack of meetings to get yelled at by the union waiting for me. Even though for the sake of the organization we'd all be better-off if I could load-balance the work, the union rules prevent me from doing-so.
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Old 07-29-2014, 11:56 AM   #24
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Do unions hold any value?


I've worked over 20 years in manufacturing and I've worked at a number of places, both union and non-union. I had no opinion on unions when I started, but I can honestly say after seeing what I have seen over the years I don't have a very high opinion of them.
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Old 07-29-2014, 01:12 PM   #25
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Do unions hold any value?


I grew up near Akron Ohio, in the 50's and 60's. Everyones dad worked at the rubber plants. There were times going to visit my g'pa, before dawn when it was still dark we'd drive past strikers, bundled up against the cold, standing around big barrels with fires in them, at the entrance to the plants. I'd hear people talking about 'scabs'.

My dad didnt work there but in another town. When he or any neighbor men were on strike it was a somber time and it was frightening. I wish now that once I was an adult that I would have asked my dad if the strikes were beneficial. I know he never liked the strikes and being without work.

We were 3 hrs from Detroit but all the talk was about Teamsters. In 1975 when I was an adult Jimmy Hoffa disappeared. It was one more thing that scared me.

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Old 07-29-2014, 01:51 PM   #26
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In 1975 when I was an adult Jimmy Hoffa disappeared.
Oh ya.. the good-old days when you could still get things done!!
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Old 07-29-2014, 01:55 PM   #27
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I still think about him because just last year there was another search for his body.
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Old 07-29-2014, 04:22 PM   #28
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I once had a chat with a union steward, and he told me: "Unions had their purpose a long time ago, but they're really no longer needed now thanks to labor laws and OSHA. So they have to create a need, and they do it by pumping fear into their members. 'Management would fire you if it wasn't for us! Management would pay you less than minimum wage if it wasn't for us! Management would take away all your benefits if it wasn't for us! We're the only thing protecting you from the evil management!' They make them look at management as the enemy and the union as the only thing protecting them. Of course it's all BS."

Again...this was a union steward telling me this!
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Old 07-29-2014, 06:05 PM   #29
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I once had a chat with a union steward, and he told me: "Unions had their purpose a long time ago, but they're really no longer needed now thanks to labor laws and OSHA. So they have to create a need, and they do it by pumping fear into their members. 'Management would fire you if it wasn't for us! Management would pay you less than minimum wage if it wasn't for us! Management would take away all your benefits if it wasn't for us! We're the only thing protecting you from the evil management!' They make them look at management as the enemy and the union as the only thing protecting them. Of course it's all BS."

Again...this was a union steward telling me this!
The need now is going to the statehouse when no one is home, and protesting health care costs or paycheck.

I cannot wait for the Il State Fair Democrat day here in Springfield. SEUI & Afscme love to ship them in from Chicago and disturb those entering the fair at the Main Gate.

After a protest two years ago. They have gotten smart and moved the speeches and breakfast to the Crowne Plaza, vs. having it out at the Fair grounds.
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Old 07-29-2014, 06:46 PM   #30
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A couple of harmless personal experiences- take what you want from it.

In the early '90s I left a large non-union plumbing shop and became a GC.
Acting as the prime contractor, this former employer actually gave me a few contracts- remodeling, pump house construction, concrete work, etc.
They called me one day to install some shelves in a storage container. I was surprised and asked them if their plumbers were not smart enough to rip some plywood and build a 2x4 framework to store fittings on?
They said of course they were, but the job was at the new city arena and the unions on site wouldn't allow the plumbers to build the shelves....

A couple hours south of me is the University of Idaho. And nine miles west of U of I, across the state line is Washington State University. No body wants to work the U of I jobs as Idaho is a right to work state- normal wage.
Travel the 9 miles to WSU and see the wage increase by 30%-50% due to Davis Bacon- prevailing wage based on union scale. Imagine what a house would cost based on that scale.... or imagine how cheap a car would be if that scale wasn't paid.....

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