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Old 08-07-2013, 02:04 PM   #16
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Wet crawlspace fix


Thanks for everyone's input. I'm speaking to another contractor about putting in perimeter french drains just above the foundation footing. My original concern with french drains is that I thought you shouldn't put concrete on top, but it seems this is ok providing you have a clean out.

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Last edited by EdTDuck; 08-07-2013 at 02:07 PM.
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Old 08-07-2013, 02:59 PM   #17
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we've never put conc on top of an ext sub-surface perimeter ( partial OR full ) drainage system,,, we surround the piping system w/clean #57 stone & that's cove';d by soil filter cloth,,, on top of that is the backfill'd soil originally removed being certain final grade is the correct slope AWAY from the bsmt wall

we also install cleanouts as appropriate but NO conc

have to begin a job tomorrow ( we were originally the higher of 2 prices ),,, 13' excavation to the brm of a sump w/pump,,, wtrproof over his new conc wall's wtrproofing, 57 stone, soil filter cloth, 12' standpipe, etc,,, we WILL replace ALL soil taken out of the hole AND backfill in compact'd lifts,,, that's 6K worth of work & they pd him $5k,,, for our original price of 10K, it would've been done correctly & resulted in a happy client
as a result of the 1st sub, now the gc has a wary client,,, do it right the 1st time is still good advice, yes ?
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Old 08-07-2013, 03:16 PM   #18
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Ok... well in my situation the problem area is under a saltillo tile patio (on 4" concrete), and I'd like to keep the patio. So that rules out a perimeter french drain in your opinion?
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Old 08-07-2013, 09:07 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itsreallyconc View Post
if either is offended by that recent post ? get over it - it weren't personal, guys ! ! !

just wish they'd get a job so i apologize to them,,, to anyone else who was offended, how could you be upset - nothing's personal !
No offense taken on my end, "gramps"...................
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Old 08-07-2013, 11:06 PM   #20
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Gutters and a trench drain may work.
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=...ain&Form=R5FD4
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Old 08-07-2013, 11:23 PM   #21
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See earlier in the discussion- already tried gutters. It's not a surface drainage issue, but subsurface. The rear of the lot (terraced garden) is very sloped and there's a row of houses at the top of the slope. Some of their run off is inevitably soaking through (nowhere else for it to go) and being directed towards the house.
I'm leaning toward the perimeter french drain solution now, but between this forum and others there seems to be some conflicting ideas of whether it's ok to put concrete over french drains.

Let me try and summarize the main concerns of concrete over french drains and see if we can pick it apart (please chime in)...

1) If drain gets blocked or damaged, ya gotta dig through concrete.
- Clean outs should remove the blockage concern, and using good quality straight PVC should make damage unlikely.

2) Soil erosion as it washes down the french drain. Concrete slab will then subside/crack.
- Won't gravel wrapped in Mirascape soil separator take care of this issue?

Any other concerns?
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Old 08-08-2013, 05:11 AM   #22
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think we should rename the op ' paul harvey ' rather than the quacker logon he pick'd now for ' the rest of the story ', huh ?

no, it doesn't rule out a ' perimeter french drain ' ( interpreted as landscaper's ' swale ' ),,, based on my ever-expanding limited knowledge of your problem, we'd suggest the aforementioned excavation & wtrproofing however we'd then fill w/#57 stone,,, might not look as pretty as grass next to your very fine saltillo tile patio but, in the words of raymond loewy, sometimes form must follow function
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Old 08-08-2013, 01:28 PM   #23
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To clarify- you'd suggest the perimeter french drains? But still not conc on top? Why not?
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Old 08-08-2013, 01:37 PM   #24
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Some tips that may not have been mentioned;
If you know there was excessive water in crawl, the mudsill may be wet as well, check it out to be safe. Fig.6: http://www.buildingscience.com/docum...sture-problems

Check for a dry rim joist or bottom edge of floor joists on the sill; http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/...-building-code

For others in cold locations; 3 ways to stop water and prevent freezing wall heave; pp.26, Fig. 13; http://www.buildingscience.com/docum...sure-guideline

As said already; http://www.easydigging.com/Drainage/...nch_drain.html

Gary
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Old 08-08-2013, 02:45 PM   #25
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Soil types "east of downtown LA" can be anything from sandy loam to black adobe. What type of soil do you have ?
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Old 08-08-2013, 03:08 PM   #26
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It's a clay loam.
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Old 08-08-2013, 03:56 PM   #27
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Based on that and your description of the water welling up, i would say that any drain pipe that is not below the level of the foundation won't do any good. But I would keep it several feet away, if I opted for it. But, you probably are already experiencing some movement of your concrete every wet and dry season, so digging close could make that worse.

I would start with a sump pump pit under the house. Use some type of perforated sump. A 5 gal bucket with a lot of holes drilled in the side will do. With enough clay in the soil, you don't even have to trench to the sump, the water will just flow subsurface to the hole.

Use a pump with a float switch. I would run hose/piping to get it to drain off property.

Try it for a season and see if it controls the water under the house to your satisfaction.

I wouldn't worry about backing up the pump. A few hours without the pump won't kill you. When the power comes back on it will clear the sump.
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Old 08-08-2013, 04:34 PM   #28
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what good would conc do on top ?,,, other than IF you were to place a sloped 6' wide slab about the wet side - THEN it might do some good,,, that conc's not going to redirect any appreciable amount of wtr impo

oso, here's why we don't excavate BELOW a foundation,,, doing so removes any lateral support the soil under the footer presently enjoys,,, might not be much but its still better'n a sharp stick in the eye

have seen too many float switches hang up,,, that's why we ONLY use zoeller m-53's w/MECHANICAL floats sliding up & down on 2 stainless steel slides,,, in 18yrs, have never 1 go ****-up on us using a 5gal bkt for a sump makes the pump cycle too often & subjects the pump to unnecessary wear & tear,,, our sumps are 30" high & 18" in diam,,, depending on soil, we will sometimes install a pump stand so any wash'd-out fines don't wear out the impeller blades & volute prematurely

then again, we only do this for a living,,, considering all the rain atlanta's had this yr, living is pretty good
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Old 08-08-2013, 04:40 PM   #29
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It's not about conc doing good... rather, the conc is already there, and I've been told the french drain can be installed by cutting and removing only part of the concrete, and then repouring/tiling the removed part.

To demo the whole lot gets expensive.

As for excavating below a foundation. My understanding is that keeping the trench at 45degrees from the bottom of the foundation is 'ok'. So if you wanted to go excavate a foot below, you keep the trench a foot away laterally from the footer.

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Old 08-08-2013, 04:46 PM   #30
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quacker, i'm getting confused you got any more pics of the site that needs the work OR were those incl'd w/your 1st post ?

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