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-   -   Water Intrusion in Basement (http://www.diychatroom.com/f105/water-intrusion-basement-199349/)

dasoul 04-14-2014 03:01 PM

Water Intrusion in Basement
 
6 Attachment(s)
So hello everyone. I read stuff here all the time just to get ideas for problems I am having in the house I bought in October. Just a couple weeks ago we had some water coming in via the basement wall in the basement. Thank goodness it is unfinished. I didn't think much about it because it didn't seem like much and I figure it would dry on its own.

While down in the basement I noticed more water and thought it was odd because we hadnt had much rain. That was when I noticed that someone, previous owner or contractor, had put caulking around the framing wall that was up against the cinder block wall. I pulled the plastic sheeting off and pulled the fiberglass insulation back and was greeted by what appeared to me to be mold.

I pulled all the framing out and took the old pieces of framing outside that appeared to be moldy. I cleaned the wall in some spots and the basement floor near the wall with hot soapy water followed it up with a rinse and a bath in bleach water. It doesn't really look like to me there is mold in the concrete. But I will take others opinion on that once they look at the pictures.

The home had previous issues with water in the bathroom due to a poorly sloped section of sidewalk. The owner had it mud jacked previously and told us the problem was fixed. It was on the disclosure.

I noticed though after the winter, and I didnt notice this before when we were buying the house and during the inspections, that there were holes in between the two sections of sidewalk. I wanted to check the slope so put two gallons of water into a 5 gallon bucket and poured part of it it onto one section of the sidewalk and it ran away from the house so I was satisfied. I poured more water onto the back section that had been mud jacked and the water ran away from the house. However I noticed that a bit of the water went into the holes between the two slabs of sidewalk. I didn't think too much about it and had some other errands to do but when I came home I went down into the basement to check and sure enough the almost dry area of the wall was now wet and had about a 1/4 inch of water pooled up on the floor in that area.

I could see in the block that there appeared to be a crack in what appears to me the grout where it meets the block. It almost looks like the corner of the block was broken and that maybe more grout was placed into that area to close it up.

I wanted to get some recommendations to curb the water flowing into this area so hence the reason I am here.

So two issues:

Sealing the holes in the sidewalk and repairing the concrete in the basement.

Sidewalk: I was going to get some type of filler material of some sort and drive as much of it into the holes near the sidewalk as I can. I was also going to get some redwood slats to punch in between the two sections of sidewalk. I read that redwood was more water resistant and would last longer. Would probably caulk where necessary there also.

Concrete: I read that a person could chisel out the area and use either hydraulic cement or non shrinking grout to fill that area and seal the hole. What bothers me is the location and I dont know if the best way to fix is grout or cement because it is very close to the edge of that cinder block

Drain tile: The sections of wall in the basement where there are problems appear to have no drain tile. While this imo masks the problem it would certainly help funnel water to the outside of the house just in case we get a big storm. I have read alot and this looks like something I could fix on my own but I was wondering if anyone would know any reason why this specific sections wouldn't have drain tile already. I mean why didn't they go all the way around in the first place? Can I put drain tile all the way up to the corners? Or would there be something under the floor maybe that would prohibit that?

All of these are short term in my opinion and the real problem is the setting potentially non compacted fill outside. But I assume this is the more costly fix and I need something now before we get much more rain. I would love to be able to trench it up and put external drain tile, repair any wall problems, and drain the water away from the house to the side and down the hill we have but obviously there is the time and cost associated with doing that.

Any helps and recommendations would be highly appreciated for both the long term and the short term fix for this problem.

Living in MN I assume we are going to get our share of heavy rains and the fact that quite a bit of water I poured outside easily found its way to the inside of the house bothers me a bit. I think about what type of damage might be outside that I cannot see and part of me wants to take the whole cinder block out and put a new cinder block in. I assume the hard part of that would be getting the grout along the outside of the cinder block so that water doesn't continue to come in.

Sorry for the long post.

Attached are the pictures.

Thanks,

Scott

stadry 04-14-2014 07:40 PM

should be enough posts re bsmt water leaks by now,,, an easy search :thumbsup:

dasoul 04-14-2014 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsreallyconc (Post 1336887)
should be enough posts re bsmt water leaks by now,,, an easy search :thumbsup:

I assume every situation is different and while some of the things are likely covered like how to fix a crack in a cinder block in this case it might be different if the crack is right near the grout line or maybe it isnt. And I have looked around and having found anything specific to what to use to fill a large crevice that goes down into the ground between the sidewalk slabs.

Thanks anyways for the response. I will keep looking in case I missed something that is pertinent to my issue.

-Scott

dasoul 04-14-2014 11:35 PM

So looks like to close the gap in between the sidewalk slabs that my best bet is backer rod and some self leveling caulk. Any suggestions on what I might need to use to fill into the sink holes or is there nothing I can do about those at this point. The water seemed to go in there pretty quickly and didn't take long to get to the cinder block inside. I can't imagine filling this one crack is going to stop all the water from getting to the cinder block. I live and MN and this is our first year here but I suspect we will get some pretty good rains and the ground will get pretty saturated.

EDIT: I measured the crack and it went from 1 inch on one side up to about 1.5 inch on the other side. Do they make backer rod that will be large enough to fill this? Also I read where someone said to use sealant on the edges before putting the SL caulk on or you will have seepage of SL caulk around the side of the rod. Is that correct and if so what is recommended to seal the two edges were the backer rod meets the slabs?

Thanks,

-Scott

stadry 04-15-2014 04:08 AM

they make backer rod in lots of different sizes - just bought 3" last week,,, HOWEVER, where you're looking, ' they ' don't,,, 1st, consult your atty - there's a water infiltration issue that's NOT been resolved,,, 2nd, call a bsmt wtrproofing co or 2 & get pro estimates,,, trying to stop wtr infiltration from the inside only means it still penetrates the bsmt wall & causes damage but you don't ' see ' it til the wall falls down :censored:

actual ' cinder block ' OR concrete block ? how old's the house ?

the best & most permanent solution may be to excavate, waterproof ext bsmt walls, install external sump & pump, etc. :furious: as you already realize, its not just a minor caulk job

irc

ps - that visible waffleboard indicates a more-than-incidental issue

dasoul 04-15-2014 04:48 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by itsreallyconc (Post 1337065)
they make backer rod in lots of different sizes - just bought 3" last week,,, HOWEVER, where you're looking, ' they ' don't,,, 1st, consult your atty - there's a water infiltration issue that's NOT been resolved,,, 2nd, call a bsmt wtrproofing co or 2 & get pro estimates,,, trying to stop wtr infiltration from the inside only means it still penetrates the bsmt wall & causes damage but you don't ' see ' it til the wall falls down :censored:

When you say "where you're looking, ' they ' don't" what do you mean? How much would you expect them to quote me for the work outside? Just rough estimate. Problem is there is a poured concrete porch right above where the water is coming in as shown by the attached diagrag. So I assume work to the outside would mean breaking all that concrete up and hauling it out. I am certainly not saying that its a deal breaker but I suspect it is going to add to the cost.

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsreallyconc (Post 1337065)
actual ' cinder block ' OR concrete block ? how old's the house ?

Sorry the house is only 20 years old and I did not realize there was a different. I suspect it is concrete block.

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsreallyconc (Post 1337065)
the best & most permanent solution may be to excavate, waterproof ext bsmt walls, install external sump & pump, etc. :furious: as you already realize, its not just a minor caulk job

Yup I understand and considering our large down payment and the fact that we just bought the house we are working our cash reserves back up slowly it is hard to imagine spending a large amount of money to fix the problem on the flip side I would rather spend the money and avoid "future" pain and heartache to get the issue fixed properly which is why I suspect that the best way to fix the issue is external drain tile outside the house being layed in the red line area of the diagram I made. I assume they can trench out and run the drain tile pipe to the rear of the yard that leads downhill out to open air. While this means quite a bit of trenching but I assume this would be a good way to deal with the water without an external pump. Or is an external pump preferred?

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsreallyconc (Post 1337065)
ps - that visible waffleboard indicates a more-than-incidental issue

I believe the internal drain tile was installed when the house was built, as a stop gap measure for the freeze/thaw cycle here in Minnesota in regards to this exact problem. Had the drain tile been installed here and the basement finished I might not even have known about the issue.

I was considering the possibility of drilling a hole at the top of the sill plate right above the issue and trying to see if I could get an idea of what it looked like down there. Brother in law has one of those hand held camera things with a light. Not sure how much I could see down into the concrete wall though.

Appreciate the thoughts and the input!

-Scott

Robpo 04-15-2014 05:03 PM

I would first try to pack some dirt from your yard if you can find some extra somewhere. Use a dowel or stick to pack it in hard and try the water test again. If it doesn't work you can scrape it out and do the backer rod thing. Couldn't hurt.

dasoul 04-15-2014 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robpo (Post 1337295)
I would first try to pack some dirt from your yard if you can find some extra somewhere. Use a dowel or stick to pack it in hard and try the water test again. If it doesn't work you can scrape it out and do the backer rod thing. Couldn't hurt.

Thanks for the response. I do need to do something in the short term that is for sure. But we have a 70% chance of snow tonight and things got cold pretty quick so there might not be much I can do for a few days and I may have to deal with the water.

Will let you know how that turns out.

stadry 04-16-2014 04:30 AM

in my experience, packing dirt might work temporarily,,, problem is the wtr's already formed its little pathways down into your very fine bsmt,,, might have better lucking laying t tarp down,,, eventually you'll have to dig up the floor & put in a pump properly,,, you only get a chance to waterproof once - while the house's being built,,, after that, its called wtr management

btw, did you call your atty yet ?

irc

dasoul 04-16-2014 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsreallyconc (Post 1337600)
in my experience, packing dirt might work temporarily,,, problem is the wtr's already formed its little pathways down into your very fine bsmt,,, might have better lucking laying t tarp down,,, eventually you'll have to dig up the floor & put in a pump properly,,, you only get a chance to waterproof once - while the house's being built,,, after that, its called wtr management

Yup. Understood. What I want to do is just hopefully fill it a little bit to slow the intrusion into the basement.

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsreallyconc (Post 1337600)
btw, did you call your atty yet ?

irc

We dont have an attorney here after speaking with the realtors they said its hard to get any compensation for these issues without having evidence to prove the seller actually knew it wasnt fixed.

Thanks,

Scott

landfillwizard 04-16-2014 09:42 AM

So wht itsreallyconcrete says and find an attorney! The realtors will say that to you to keep from being hauled in to litigation. From what i see that water has been leaking for quite a while.


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