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Old 07-23-2012, 12:54 AM   #1
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Tools are needed for various brick/concrete drilling?


I bought a 1950 ranch with full brick (and some granite) exterior, full basement (cinderblock) and concrete slab.

I have several projects I need to do and I think it would be worthwhile to invest in the tools to get these done. Here are the projects:
  • Increase dryer vent hole from 3" to 4" (in birck)
  • Mount window well covers with bracket (in brick)
  • 4" holes for radon system (in slab)
That is all the important stuff. I'm sure other things will arise when I actually move into the place. I suppose I could rent, but.. rentals will add up if new projects arise.



Please correct me if I am wrong, but I would assume you need an expensive hammer drill and bit to make clean 4" holes. I was intending on drilling a bazillion little holes for the 4" projects and connecting the dots with a hammer and chisel. To make those holes I am debating investing in a corded hammer drill, by dewalt DW511 ($80) or SKIL 6445-01 ($60) and some bits DW5207 ($19)


Input?

For those who like pictures, here is my current dryer vent



Last edited by nowwhatnapster; 07-23-2012 at 12:58 AM.
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Old 07-23-2012, 05:32 AM   #2
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Tools are needed for various brick/concrete drilling?


That DeWalt DW511 is Not an expensive hammerdrill but is
worth having even for just very occasional use as a hammerdrill.
because by turning the hammer function off it can be used as a more
conventional drill.
• That said, Your initial plan to use the hammerdrill to mount the window
well covers should go smoothly
• The plan for the 4" dryer vent can also work out.
• The big problem IMO would be attempting to drill the 4" holes in a concrete slab.
That little DeWalt will likely die from smoking before it gets through the first hole.
I would call a CT Concrete Corer, for example
A Corer could also have your Dryer vent very cleanly cored.
So at least get some estimates.

• If you want to persist with the 4" holes as a DIY, then first experiment
by boring out the Dryer vent.
If I was doing it, then to prevent a ragged exterior, I would first make
a 4" template out of a scrap piece of Ύ” plywood
•To make the Template
  • Start with about 1 sq ft of scrap plywood
  • Drill a 4" Hole in the plywood
  • Trim outside perimeter of plywood if necessary
Center the template over the hole that you want to start nibbling out
and hold it in place with temporary dabs of construction adhesive. It
may take a while to dry but the template can be removed by prying it off
when the hole is completed.

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Old 07-23-2012, 02:54 PM   #3
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Tools are needed for various brick/concrete drilling?


Thanks for taking the time to post.

I had a feeling the slab would be too tough. I will take your advice and look into getting some quotes for the 4" holes. As for the drill, I think I'll go for it. I have an old corded drill and and old cordless drill, neither are really that powerful. This would be a step up for me.
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Old 07-23-2012, 03:18 PM   #4
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Tools are needed for various brick/concrete drilling?


When you ask for the Quote have him break it down between slab & brick
because to drill on a vertical surface he has to bolt his rig to the bricks.
No hand held drilling possible here.
Depending on his price for the Dryer Vent you could do that with the DeWalt
Hammerdrill, but use the homemade 4" jig to minimize damage to the brick surface.
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Old 07-24-2012, 09:15 PM   #5
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Tools are needed for various brick/concrete drilling?


Umm....Whos gonna use a boring machine to cut a dryer vent? Whoa the coffee must be strong over there. I would pay good money to see a guy "bolt to the brick" to open a hole up 1/2 inch bigger. This could get really exciting.


Wow it sure is fun to see people "Speculate" on here. Makes the day more interesting.

Brick: Cheap 4 1/2" angle grinder, cheap diamond blade. Chisel, hammer.
Self explanatory? (Dont use demo hammer on brick. Vibration is VERY bad for older brick) Estimated time of completion: 10 minutes.

Concrete: Hire a guy. Tools for this are not affordable. You want clean cuts and dont want your slab all cut up.
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Old 07-25-2012, 02:18 AM   #6
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Tools are needed for various brick/concrete drilling?


Not sure how you would make a round 4" hole with an angle grinder if the grinder is 4 1/4". I can understand a square hole. Perhaps I don't understand what an angle grinder is capable of.

Watch this video.
http://youtu.be/gSUnJSUu5qo
The comedian/electrician who shouldn't quite his day job appears to be using a hammer drill and a 2" carbide core bit. Now, don't get me wrong, but that was pretty fast.

Warning... about to speculate.... after watching that video and the tools the guy was using, it doesn't seem far fetched that I could pull off a 4" hole with my 7.8 amp hammer drill and a 4" carbide bit. It would take longer, yes. Possibly 5x longer since were doubling the circumference, and assuming my drill is half as powerful and a 25% margin of error for brick hardness. Also, looking on Milwaukee's website at their $30 carbide tipped hole saws they do clearly state the optimal RPM for use in "Brick".

I got a quote from the concrete coring guy, looking at $550. Baseline for any work he does and it would cover several slab holes plus the brick hole. Little pricey, I'll get some more quotes.

Feeling like I want to take a $30 gamble on a carbide bit.

I agree the concrete is out of the question.

As for the boring machine... they do look rather intense for the brick application, concrete i could see.
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Old 07-25-2012, 01:12 PM   #7
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Tools are needed for various brick/concrete drilling?


Those concrete core drills for 4" horizontal holes have to be bolted to a surface.
So what I would do is first get the 4" hole in brick out of the way by doing it
myself, then calling around to get a better price on the 4" concrete coring.

The 4” Carbide Bit you quoted will definitely do the job.
After all brick being made from clay, can’t approach concrete for hardness.
Most of the arbors for that 4” hole saw require a ½” Drill because they have a
7/16” shank. For your 3/8” drill. there are two arbors that will fit a 3/8 chuck.You might find the second choice locally. Don't try to drill the
4" hole free hand. Make up the 4" hole guide in post #2 from scrap plywood.
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Last edited by PaliBob; 07-25-2012 at 01:17 PM. Reason: sp
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Old 07-25-2012, 04:34 PM   #8
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Tools are needed for various brick/concrete drilling?


Although I have a variety of different size core bits, along with large roto-hammers, at my disposal, I wouldn't be drilling the hole in the brick. You need teh centering bit in the core bit to hit solid material so the bit doesn't walk around, or you need an actual core rig, which is gross overkill. Just use a hammer & chisel to enlarge the existing hole from each side, cored brick are brittle enough to knock out small pieces easily. After you're pipe is in place, either mortar around it or caulk it.

As for the 4" hole in a concrete floor, you could easily rent a 4" core bit and a roto-hammer from a local rental store.
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Old 08-08-2012, 01:38 AM   #9
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Tools are needed for various brick/concrete drilling?


I believe the DW511 has a 1/2 chuck. I am going to pickup a 7/16 arbor 49-56-7055 and either a 4" 49-56-4003 or 4-1/4" 49-56-4253 carbide hole saw.

I cant decide if I should get the extra 1/4". A 4" galvanized metal flue is a 4" galvanized metal flue, right? Shouldn't be any need for the extra 1/4"? I measured the pipe and it does appear to be over 4" slightly, but it flexes so my measurement might not be exact.
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Old 08-08-2012, 04:06 PM   #10
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Tools are needed for various brick/concrete drilling?


You can rent the core drill and the bit for 250 per day at HD
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Old 08-08-2012, 08:57 PM   #11
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Tools are needed for various brick/concrete drilling?


The pipe may be 4" but the part that attaches to the outside will have a 4-1/4 flange on the back side of it.

Mark my words a carbide hole saw will not work. And will be distroyed within an inch.
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Old 08-08-2012, 10:08 PM   #12
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Tools are needed for various brick/concrete drilling?


I agree, skip the hole saw and use a hammer and chisel (chisel optional). You will need 4 1/4" to get through, but the beauty of the hammer method is that one size fit's all.........
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Old 08-24-2012, 01:37 AM   #13
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Tools are needed for various brick/concrete drilling?


So I'm sure your all wondering if I failed or succeeded with this project. I'm not finished yet, but the drilling is done and I am considering it a success. Here is how it went down.

As I said before I bought the dewalt DW511 hammer drill ($80), a milwaukee 7/16" arbor and 4" carbide holesaw ($41). I don't consider the drill a cost for this project as its an upgrade over my old corded drill.

Since there was already a 3" hole my 4" holesaw would need something to keep it centered. I decided not to mount anything to the brick exterior of the house for fear it would leave a permanent mark. Instead I cut out nine 3" round 1/2" thick pieces of pine from scrap I had laying around. I screwed them together into in sections of 2 using 1-1/4" screws. Here is a photo of one section.

I screwed the first section onto a peice of plywood and then screwed the other 4 sections in succession onto it. Forming a 3" cylinder standing on a flat surface. I then inserted this contraption into the existing 3" dryer vent from the inside of the house. I secured it on the inside with 2 screws through the plywood. This gave me a relatively stable center point for my holesaw. This whole idea was dream-pt up and executed in a little over an hour.

With the center point in place I was ready to drill. The existing brick hole was very jagged on the inside so I guesstimated the best center point and started drilling... slowly... The carbide bit recommended 90RPM. The new drill had plenty of torq for job. It was not terribly hard to handle either and I am a small guy ~135lb.

I did not use the hammer function on the drill as I was afraid it might crack the outside brick edge. The brick cut so well I decided not to turn on the hammer function at all. Here you can see the beginning with the wood contraption protruding from the hole.

As I cut further I unscrewed sections to allow the hole saw to continue the deep cut. These 2 photos below have 1 section removed. Note the nice smooth cut :-) Exactly what I was hoping for.



All in all I drilled through approximately 2" of brick and 2" of old growth pine. Yeah a sandwich of three 2x10's, wasn't expecting that much wood. It took awhile and I took regular breaks. I would say start to finish it was 60 minutes of non stop drilling. The drill did get scorching hot near the end. No way in hell my old drill would have been up for the job.

We got a nice clean looking hole to look at my neighbors house now. (any brick chunks missing or jagged wood is from the old hole)


My biggest error in all of this was deciding to buy the 4" instead of the 4-1/4" bit. Right now I cannot insert the pipe all the way through the hole. It gets hung up on the transition from brick to wood. This could have been avoided with the larger bit. So for all you future DIY'ers out there, if your drilling a really deep hole like this, get the slightly bigger bit. There is too much variance in 5" deep hole for the pipe to slide in smoothly.

I plan on sanding off the extra 32nd or 16th of an inch this weekend to wrap this project up. On the plus side, there won't be any need for mortar as there are no gaps to fill.

I'll post pictures of the final result when I finish.

Side note: the 4" carbide hole saw seems to be in decent shape. It does have 1 tooth that was chipped during the whole process.

Last edited by nowwhatnapster; 08-24-2012 at 01:48 AM.
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Old 08-24-2012, 05:58 AM   #14
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Tools are needed for various brick/concrete drilling?


Quote:
Originally Posted by nowwhatnapster View Post
Side note: the 4" carbide hole saw seems to be in decent shape. It does have 1 tooth that was chipped during the whole process.
Congratulations for sticking with it and for responding with pictures.
Glad to hear the 4" carbide hole-saw held up against the bricks.
Compliments on the kluge 3" drill guide. Another technique used
just for smaller holes than yours and only if you have two hole saws
is to use a Oops Arbor.
.

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Last edited by PaliBob; 08-24-2012 at 06:00 AM. Reason: sp
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