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Old 04-21-2012, 11:22 AM   #16
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Paver Brick Stoop Help


Post # 4 is it
I would be concerned about water getting behind the bricks,"freeze thaw cycle"
Looks like good construction.

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Old 04-21-2012, 11:28 AM   #17
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Jomama,

What you see in the picture will not be the finished height. I will have full nose bricks around the perimeter which will overhang the brick, then the inside field will have the pavers. I have included a pic below of the front stoop (done by a contractor) to illustrate.

To clarify your post, you suggest that I go with the wet concrete and set the pavers into that? Are there any issues with the fill that I have in there now? My understanding is that it is common practice to use fill to minimize the amount of concrete needed.

If I do go with concrete I would plan to pour it several inches below the top, then scratch up the surface with nails driven into a board. Then I would use mortar on top of that into which the bricks would be set. The theory is that I would have a much easier time getting things level / pitched by working with batches of mortar than a field of concrete that will certainly dry before I finish all my herringbone cuts.

Here is what the front steps look like and how I have modeled this side stoop / step. The only differences is I used coloring in the mortar (I hate the white in the front! ) and the step will wrap around from the front to the left side:



So only the faces of the bricks on my "walls" will show.

I appreciate any advice you have!
The issue I see is that the concrete really needs bearing directly to the foundation on at least 3 sides. Pouring inside the bricks means the slab can easily settle, and the outside perimeter brick (the bull-nose brick) will be supported by the foundation, as they should be.

Typically, we would have brought the foundation up to just below grade, poured a re-enforced slab with brick ledge as necessary, and left the concrete down the thickness of the brick + about 1/2". Some masonry horizontal cladding, like random flagstone, may require as much as 2-3" of mortar bed to level out the surface due to varying thicknesses (bed depth), but brick is good with 1/2".

Maybe you can figure out how to attach the slab to the brick adequately yet, but the only thing I can think of is to rip the existing top course in half to allow for a 2" slab ledge. Not sure I'd do it though, as it may compromise the integrety of the pavers too much.......

If you get decent bearing on the brick, and subsequently the frost walls, the fill in the middle becomes a non-issue, as the slab will span easily. As a matter of fact, we've poured small stoops over hay/straw in the past in extremely high ground water-level situations to prevent frost heave in the winter.

As for "wet-set", it's simply a term to imply the brick are laid in a mortar vs. a dry set in sand or directly over the concrete.
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Old 04-21-2012, 11:29 AM   #18
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Paver Brick Stoop Help


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Post # 4 is it
I would be concerned about water getting behind the bricks,"freeze thaw cycle"
Looks like good construction.
That certainly is another concern if the top isn't sealed up perfectly. Freezing water can certainly push on the veneer brick, eventually displacing them.
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Old 04-21-2012, 07:32 PM   #19
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Ok, cement it is - thanks!

I still plan to use the fill to minmize the amount of concrete - please let me know if there are any issues with this.
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Old 04-21-2012, 09:58 PM   #20
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Ok, cement it is - thanks!

I still plan to use the fill to minmize the amount of concrete - please let me know if there are any issues with this.
No problem with that, just make sure you leave 4" for concrete, a little more is better........
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Old 06-10-2012, 06:46 PM   #21
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Hey everyone,

I've made some more progress on the stoop - getting to the finish line. Thanks for all the advice thus far - the house is flashed covering the foundation and the top bricks are set in mortar.

I just have to finish the joints on the fullnose bricks and finish mortaring in the cut bricks on the herringbone pattern (in the pic just the full bricks are set, not the cut ones).

Anyway, as you can see I put the pavers in the center in a tight pattern - just the joint of the spacers between the bricks remain (~1/8"). To finish it off I would like to mortar the joints. Now I can't really slap mortar in there as the space is so small so I was thinking about polymetric sand. After doing some research it seems that most people say it doesn't work well at all.

Then I saw another idea of taking DRY mortar and sweeping it into the joints and misting with water to harden it. The only purpose of this is to give it a more finished look and to prevent water from getting in the joints.

Is this a bad idea? Anyone ever do it?

Thanks!

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Old 06-10-2012, 09:13 PM   #22
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Paver Brick Stoop Help


.....and why in the world is there rebar in the porch? (rhetorical question) Someone watched too many diy videos? Actually weakens the concrete. Just sayin...
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Old 06-10-2012, 09:14 PM   #23
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Paver Brick Stoop Help


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Originally Posted by spta97 View Post
Hey everyone,

I've made some more progress on the stoop - getting to the finish line. Thanks for all the advice thus far - the house is flashed covering the foundation and the top bricks are set in mortar.

I just have to finish the joints on the fullnose bricks and finish mortaring in the cut bricks on the herringbone pattern (in the pic just the full bricks are set, not the cut ones).

Anyway, as you can see I put the pavers in the center in a tight pattern - just the joint of the spacers between the bricks remain (~1/8"). To finish it off I would like to mortar the joints. Now I can't really slap mortar in there as the space is so small so I was thinking about polymetric sand. After doing some research it seems that most people say it doesn't work well at all.

Then I saw another idea of taking DRY mortar and sweeping it into the joints and misting with water to harden it. The only purpose of this is to give it a more finished look and to prevent water from getting in the joints.

Is this a bad idea? Anyone ever do it?

Thanks!

looks good tho
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Old 06-10-2012, 11:27 PM   #24
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Paver Brick Stoop Help


This is the first vote against rebar I have heard and yes, I watch way too many home improvement shows! It is more to tie it into the house as I have heard steps will often pull away with freeze / thaw cycles.

And thanks for the complement. This is the first time I have ever done brick work so it was a real learning experience. God bless people who do this for a living!

Any thoughts on my question about the joints on the landing?
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Old 06-11-2012, 12:02 AM   #25
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Paver Brick Stoop Help


Polymeric sand for the pavers on the landing. I love DIY shows too like yardcrashers and bathcrashers

This is very nice for a first timer i can say that im actually very impressed and im not impressed easy at all.

Heres me....www.eagle757.com

The reason i voted against the rebar is that concrete is actually stronger without steel when it comes to small pours like that.

Did you drill into the original footer of the house 6-8" and insert rebar with epoxy? I just have never seen rebar in a porch is all. Not saying that what you did is wrong in any way. I had to remove a set of cast concrete steps one time that were at least 40 years old. Solid as a rock with no rebar.


Last edited by TRUEPRO; 06-11-2012 at 12:12 AM.
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