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Old 04-20-2012, 03:19 PM   #1
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Paver Brick Stoop Help


Hi all,

I am building a stoop on the side of my house and since this is all new to me I need some advice.

I poured a 4' (frost line in my area is 3') foundation that the bricks in the picture are sitting on and mortared in the bricks with type S mortar. The center was dug out a foot and filled with RCA (recycled concrete- it is the standard "gravel" in my area used as a base for paver bricks) and tamped down.

My original plan was to fill in the center with brick, rocks and RCA, then top it off with concrete up to a few inches from the top. Then I planned to put down a bed of sand to sit the paver bricks in.

Now I am thinking I should take out the rocks and brick and just use the RCA and tamp it down in lieu of using the concrete.

Below are some pics of my progress which shows the fill I have in there now (the purpose of the fill is to minimize the amount of concrete required).

Any thoughs on concrete vs. tamped RCA for the paver brick top? On the bottom step I would intend to use the concrete as I will have full nose bricks mortared into it.

Thanks!





Last edited by spta97; 04-20-2012 at 03:22 PM.
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Old 04-20-2012, 04:40 PM   #2
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Paver Brick Stoop Help


I would nix the crete.

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Old 04-20-2012, 06:32 PM   #3
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Paver Brick Stoop Help


Thanks for the reply. I'm thinking I should remove the brick and rocks from the fill so I can get a good tamp on the RCA. Would you agree?
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Old 04-21-2012, 08:26 AM   #4
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Paver Brick Stoop Help


I don't want to knock any wind out of your sails, but if the top of brick is to be the finished landing height, I would remove the top course of brick. With the amount of effort you put into this so far with the frost footing I think it would be a shame if you didn't pour a concrete slab that bears down directly on the brick/foundation. It would be the longest lasting, least maintenance approach w/o a doubt. Compacted gravel with pavers over the top will need work every few years or so. A wet-set over concrete should last decades, even longer if you were to use a hard clay paver. As for the height issue, the brick really should have an overhang/nosing as well. This is usually accomplished by running a soldier course around the entire perimeter and filling in the field with w/e pattern you choose.
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Old 04-21-2012, 08:30 AM   #5
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Paver Brick Stoop Help


Nice job on that project. Kind of disappointed though, to see so much nice work done coming out of the ground to then have the part that is the most visible and susceptible to failure, be shortchanged. jmo

Ooop, sorry Joma, we posted at the same time, you are dead on.
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Old 04-21-2012, 10:11 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jomama45 View Post
I don't want to knock any wind out of your sails, but if the top of brick is to be the finished landing height, I would remove the top course of brick. With the amount of effort you put into this so far with the frost footing I think it would be a shame if you didn't pour a concrete slab that bears down directly on the brick/foundation. It would be the longest lasting, least maintenance approach w/o a doubt. Compacted gravel with pavers over the top will need work every few years or so. A wet-set over concrete should last decades, even longer if you were to use a hard clay paver. As for the height issue, the brick really should have an overhang/nosing as well. This is usually accomplished by running a soldier course around the entire perimeter and filling in the field with w/e pattern you choose.
Jomama,

What you see in the picture will not be the finished height. I will have full nose bricks around the perimeter which will overhang the brick, then the inside field will have the pavers. I have included a pic below of the front stoop (done by a contractor) to illustrate.

To clarify your post, you suggest that I go with the wet concrete and set the pavers into that? Are there any issues with the fill that I have in there now? My understanding is that it is common practice to use fill to minimize the amount of concrete needed.

If I do go with concrete I would plan to pour it several inches below the top, then scratch up the surface with nails driven into a board. Then I would use mortar on top of that into which the bricks would be set. The theory is that I would have a much easier time getting things level / pitched by working with batches of mortar than a field of concrete that will certainly dry before I finish all my herringbone cuts.

Here is what the front steps look like and how I have modeled this side stoop / step. The only differences is I used coloring in the mortar (I hate the white in the front! ) and the step will wrap around from the front to the left side:



So only the faces of the bricks on my "walls" will show.

I appreciate any advice you have!

Last edited by spta97; 04-21-2012 at 10:14 AM.
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Old 04-21-2012, 10:22 AM   #7
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Paver Brick Stoop Help


Really need to add some flashing where that rim joist is before doing any poring.
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Old 04-21-2012, 10:33 AM   #8
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Paver Brick Stoop Help


Dont forget the 5/8 in. rebar !
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Old 04-21-2012, 10:34 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by joecaption View Post
Really need to add some flashing where that rim joist is before doing any poring.
Thanks Joe. There actually is flashing undneath the door already (I installed that door) but I wouldn't mind adding more. Would it just be a matter of sliding another piece under what is there that runs the entire width of the stoop down to where the foundation starts?

The foundation ends and the wood starts right at the line where you see the the tar paper / house wrap.

My old door had no flashing (it was a few feet to the left) and the old concrete stoop that was there allowed water in and it completey rotted out the sill to the point where you could stick your hand in the crawl space. I want to avoid that at all costs so any advice you have is greatly appreciated
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Old 04-21-2012, 10:39 AM   #10
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Dont forget the 5/8 in. rebar !

Hmmm...I used 1/2"

There sure is a lot of it though - drilled into the foundation and making a grid on the footing as well as underneath that rubble pile - I PL'ed it into the drilled foundation holes as per a Mike Homes show
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Old 04-21-2012, 10:47 AM   #11
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Paver Brick Stoop Help


A layer of Storm and Ice shield slid up under the siding and all the way past any expost wood should be fine.

I never cut out the siding when doing a stoop, I just have them run the stone or bricks about 1/2 from it.

I've seen far to many new and old houses with rotted out rim joist and foundation plates from having the stoop or deck tight to the house.
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Old 04-21-2012, 10:47 AM   #12
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Hmmm...I used 1/2"

There sure is a lot of it though - drilled into the foundation and making a grid on the footing as well as underneath that rubble pile - I PL'ed it into the drilled foundation holes as per a Mike Homes show [/quote]

That is good, I seem to always overkill my projects.

Last edited by Jeeps; 04-21-2012 at 11:08 AM.
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Old 04-21-2012, 11:06 AM   #13
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Paver Brick Stoop Help


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Originally Posted by joecaption View Post
A layer of Storm and Ice shield slid up under the siding and all the way past any expost wood should be fine.

I never cut out the siding when doing a stoop, I just have them run the stone or bricks about 1/2 from it.

I've seen far to many new and old houses with rotted out rim joist and foundation plates from having the stoop or deck tight to the house.
Like the Peal and Seal asphapt roll stuff with the foil on it? I think I have some in the basement! (it makes good sound proofing for car audio systems).

I had thought about keeping the siding there but I figured water would find it's way in anyway.
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Old 04-21-2012, 11:08 AM   #14
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Paver Brick Stoop Help


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeeps View Post
Hmmm...I used 1/2"

There sure is a lot of it though - drilled into the foundation and making a grid on the footing as well as underneath that rubble pile - I PL'ed it into the drilled foundation holes as per a Mike Homes show
That is good, I seem to always overkill my projects.

This is what happens when the proper foundation is not put in under masonry work. This is sand/rock/broken chips under these bricks being replaced.


http://[/quote]

I like to overkill as well. What are your thoughts about the concrete? Should I keep the fill I have and top off with concrete?

The fill is crushed concrete, not dirt as I have seen a lot of people use.
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Old 04-21-2012, 11:12 AM   #15
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Paver Brick Stoop Help


Post # 4 nailed it.

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