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Old 03-06-2014, 08:54 PM   #1
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Patio area for new construction: Pour slab and modify later, or something else?


Hi all! We're close to signing contracts on a new construction home in the Indianapolis suburbs, and I'm looking for advice on our back patio area. We've got about a 12 x 12 area off our sun room where the builders normally pour a concrete slab for $450. I'm wanting something nicer than that, but not ridiculously expensive. Depending on cost, this might not get done right away, as we're putting a lot of money into the purchase of the house, of course. I've been doing research the past couple days and come up with these possibilities on my own. I'd love opinions on these, or any other options!

Have them pour slab for $450, then modify later:
1) Install pavers over it later: The advantage here seems to be that I could probably do this myself and save $.
2) Install like a "click/lock" system over it: Again, I could likely do this myself.
3) Install wood deck in that area: I'd have to hire this out. I'm also hearing it's a bad idea to install a deck anywhere near ground level because of the potential for rot and mold?
4) Stamped concrete overlay: Hired out. No idea on the cost of this.

Don't have the slap poured -- just start from scratch later
1) Pavers: Without the slab, this would be much more difficult, right? Grading, hauling, etc?
2) Some type of stone: Again, probably hired out.
3) Ground level deck: Hired out.
4) Stamped concrete: Hired out. Runs about $10-$11/sf in this area I'm told.

Thanks for any and all opinions!





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Old 03-07-2014, 07:43 AM   #2
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Patio area for new construction: Pour slab and modify later, or something else?


call gene dean - he's knowledgeable in both - 317.710.6241 - my 1st thought's $ 450's cheap so do that now,,, @ least you'll have a place to sit that's not muddy til you decide

[ no $ interest - just know his work ]

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Old 03-07-2014, 07:59 AM   #3
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Patio area for new construction: Pour slab and modify later, or something else?


What and how it's done depends some what on the elevation.
Got a picture?
No one here knows if the house is 2' or 2" above grade.
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Old 03-07-2014, 08:39 AM   #4
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Patio area for new construction: Pour slab and modify later, or something else?


Thanks for the replies...I love getting as many opinions as possible! No pictures, as we haven't even signed paperwork to start building yet, but I can tell you in the model homes there's no step down to the patio area. A sliding door from the sun room opens directly to the patio area...maybe a few inches down at most?
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Old 03-07-2014, 09:32 AM   #5
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Patio area for new construction: Pour slab and modify later, or something else?


Do you a favor, put it in the contract to have then set the door in a sill pan.
It's one of the most common post on this and any DIY site to have water getting inside the home from the door being set to close to the outside grade.
If this is a snow area it should be at least 6" above grade.
http://jambsill.com/
No amount of caulking is going to keep the water out of it's not flashed right.
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Old 03-07-2014, 09:46 AM   #6
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Patio area for new construction: Pour slab and modify later, or something else?


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Originally Posted by joecaption View Post
Do you a favor, put it in the contract to have then set the door in a sill pan.
It's one of the most common post on this and any DIY site to have water getting inside the home from the door being set to close to the outside grade.
If this is a snow area it should be at least 6" above grade.
http://jambsill.com/
No amount of caulking is going to keep the water out of it's not flashed right.
That construction method hasn't been used in the majority of this country for 50 years. Garage floors are even at the same elevation as living areas unlike 50 years ago. It just isn't going to happen without a hellof a fight with the contractor and he will probably just tell you to find someone else to build your house.
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Old 03-07-2014, 10:50 AM   #7
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Patio area for new construction: Pour slab and modify later, or something else?


The requirement for a elevation difference is code requirement in many places for safety, fire and air quality purposes. Usually it is 6" or 8". No one thinks of it as a problem and builders even advertise the benefits.

Our climate requires at least a 48" frost line and stem wall construction is very common because of the benefits. Attached garage may have strip footings and the remainder will be a basement (8'0" clear or 9'4") since it the cheapest way to get a lot of liveable square footage and a basic 1200 sf "footprint" can give you a almost 2400 sf living space (less utility area, of course). In reality a high percentage of home will have the living space split either front to back or side to side and may have 3 or 4 different floor levels, I had one with 4 levels and my current townhouse has only 2 levels.

+10 on including sill "pan flashing".

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Old 03-07-2014, 01:11 PM   #8
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Patio area for new construction: Pour slab and modify later, or something else?


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[INDENT] We've got about a 12 x 12 area off our sun room where the builders normally pour a concrete slab for $450.
Is there anyway to go bigger than 12x12 on the slab the builder pours. I'm sure he will charge a little more but on a 12x12 you will wish you had gone a little bigger
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Old 03-07-2014, 06:13 PM   #9
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Patio area for new construction: Pour slab and modify later, or something else?


Thanks a ton for all the opinions! I've pretty much decided to NOT have the patio poured, and then to do pavers myself. I'm slightly intimidated, but there's a lot of guidance online.

Question for everyone: one of the concrete guys I talked to told me I should hold off on doing anything for a year, in order to let the ground settle. One of the other concrete guys I talked to told me it shouldn't be a problem to do it right away this summer, as the builders are going to grade everything and were going to pour the slab right away anyway. Anyone see a problem with me laying pavers virtually right away?
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Old 03-07-2014, 06:37 PM   #10
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Patio area for new construction: Pour slab and modify later, or something else?


Perhaps i can answer some of your questions unlike other post which have no real use for this particular thread. SMH


Anyways....enough of the old man blah blah blah...


First of all, $450 for ANY concrete to get installed is a good deal. Thats for sure. Now....does that limit you. Yes. Are you using 450 good ole american dollars towards something your just gonna end up regretting? Perhaps. If i were having my house built, i would (IMHO) save to back for later. Id rather have the back yard as a blank canvas. Dont forget, you have the 12x12 installed for 450, you gonna be paying that 450 again to have demolished and removed if you decide 144 square feet isnt enough room for your families enjoyment.

Now, if you do believe that your happy with the 12x12 concrete, then there are options for adding decoration later on. Examples would be: acid staining, stampable overlays, stencil overlays, etching etc. There's pros and cons to every method of overlaying pre existing concrete. I dont have much experience in this area so i couldnt stand behind any of those products with the exception of acid staining. Staining is something you could DIY. Just stay away from eco based stains which do not yield desired results/colors.

Pavers. Yes pavers are something more for the DIYer but the downside is more labor and alot more materials. If had friends with little to no experience install pavers with good success. You can always pick them back up (unless you use polymeric sand instead of stone dust or sand)

If you want to install pavers over the concrete one day, that might be kinda tricky. If you can get the top of the pad poured 6-7" (depending on paver) below the door sill without having any water issues in the meanwhile, it would def make for the best sub base. Then you would have enough room for your paver and dust while still being 4" under sill (minimum).


Bottom line, what is your size preference? Some customers of mine have had me build these huge, elaborate backyards only to find out they dont spend as much time outside like they imagined before i received their call. So if you only need a spot for a few friends and a grill, might not be the worst idea to get off for 450. If you feel like you dont want to be limited or obligated to spend more down the line, save the money and use it towards something you can be proud to show off. Hope this helps unlike people arguing over door flashing(which is still important, just not the question)

GL
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Old 03-08-2014, 07:02 AM   #11
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Patio area for new construction: Pour slab and modify later, or something else?


true, you callin' me an old man ? or was that for joe or dick ?
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Old 03-08-2014, 07:55 AM   #12
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Patio area for new construction: Pour slab and modify later, or something else?


Make sure that the city inspector does not require that patio to be there for the final buy off inspection. In some cities, a back patio is part of building code. You just want to make sure....you would hate to have your move in delayed because of it.

I know in Texas, the yard has to have grass....

But if you can hold off....that is what I would do....and if you can get the builder to do the basic grading and scrape it down far enough...that will save you a ton of time.

I've done the paver thing....the grading is the hard part....but it's actually kind of fun.

As for waiting....I would say the only reason to wait is if there had been some serious grading done and the soil disturbed....you want it to be pretty compact. A few rains and some stomping will do wonders that that. You can rent a compactor for 4 hours.

Here is how I did mine....

3" of pea gravel....trust me....the gravel is VERY important....
2" of sand
Pavers.

And here is the result.....after 6 years it is still flat......and yes, that is a chess board layout in the middle....

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Old 03-08-2014, 09:40 AM   #13
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Patio area for new construction: Pour slab and modify later, or something else?


Go as big as you can...you will not regret it. Wish I would of went a little bigger.
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Old 03-08-2014, 09:46 AM   #14
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Quote:
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Go as big as you can...you will not regret it. Wish I would of went a little bigger.
YES^^^^^^

And you wife will say the same thing....it's never big enough....
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Old 03-08-2014, 02:02 PM   #15
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Patio area for new construction: Pour slab and modify later, or something else?


I would prefer to keep the money and put it towards doing exactly what I wanted. That's the reason we opted not to get some things on our new-construction house. That, and it's not $450, it's $450 financed for 30 years @ x.xx%.

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