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Old 06-24-2012, 12:24 PM   #16
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Need advice for 2 footings


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Originally Posted by CopperClad View Post
38" square, 12'' deep? and an engineer gave you this "minimum"? If indeed an engineer gave you these dimensions, which doesn't seem common for a footing, on the DRAWING it will show you all of this information. Such as the attachment for the column to the footing, how far below finish floor the footing should be, how many PSI the concrete needs to be and quite a bit more information. Did you hire the "engineer" from Craigslist? What is this steel beam supporting? . You're going to ask how big the steel beam needs to be next huh
no offence CopperClad but your sarcasm is very annoying. Yes I paid an engineer for these plans and yes the plans calls for 38x38x10. He let me know i can go larger if i wanted. There was no mention about concrete installation because its not his domain. The plans do state 20mpa.

Oh and he gave me the size of the steel beam also W150X37 minimum. If your not going to be helping I think you should close the lid of your laptop and go play outside.

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Old 06-24-2012, 12:26 PM   #17
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Need advice for 2 footings


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Yes the way you described using the vibrator is how it's used,just don't over do it or you'll have all the coarse aggregate laying on the bottom of the footing and sand and cement on top.

Are you mixing the concrete by hand?
Hello Canarywood,

No I am getting the concrete delivered (30mpa). they will be delivering it to my home and unfortunately i will be bringing it to the basement with a few friends by pails.

How much time should I spend vibrating each footing? I would guess it should take about a minute?

Last edited by simonb; 06-24-2012 at 12:29 PM.
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Old 06-24-2012, 12:52 PM   #18
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Need advice for 2 footings


I'm sorry my sarcasm annoys you. It just scares me when DIY'ers are trying to dig footings, talking about building forms which aren't needed, attaching unknown columns, with unknown connections, supporting an unknown steel beam, which is return supporting unknown. Sounds like you're supporting your house. Would hate for it to cave in due to not meeting codes, and following an approved drawing. Building a deck with footings? sure have at it. Supporting your house? know for SURE what you're doing.
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Old 06-24-2012, 01:59 PM   #19
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Need advice for 2 footings


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Originally Posted by CopperClad View Post
I'm sorry my sarcasm annoys you. It just scares me when DIY'ers are trying to dig footings, talking about building forms which aren't needed, attaching unknown columns, with unknown connections, supporting an unknown steel beam, which is return supporting unknown. Sounds like you're supporting your house. Would hate for it to cave in due to not meeting codes, and following an approved drawing. Building a deck with footings? sure have at it. Supporting your house? know for SURE what you're doing.
I have drawings and im not trying to dig footings, I have dug them and have them ready. Some people dont use forms, some people do, I chose to use them. I am supporting my house and I am following code and engeneering instructions.

I know where you getting at with all this, I wouldnt do anything that I didnt have all the information on and that is why im asking people localy and here online.

There are betters ways to get to the point of where you getting to then being the way you are.
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Old 06-24-2012, 02:50 PM   #20
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Need advice for 2 footings


A vibrator is typically used on industrial or commercial projects where significant voids must not occur. For a small footing such as you describe, there is no need for a vibrator, you can prevent voids by careful placement of the concrete and by moving a rebar up and down to eliminate the potential for voids. Since you already have a vibrator (or so I gather), there is nothing wrong with using it, you simply insert it into the concrete, run it for half a minute or so, move it to another location. Total time a few minutes.

Just for curiosity, this thread has mixed English and metric units. Where do you live that you would specify the strength of concrete in megapascals and the size of the footing in inches? And the beam in metric units?
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Old 06-24-2012, 03:04 PM   #21
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Need advice for 2 footings


I apologize for not going about it in a way that suits your desires. 80% of your questions should be on the drawing. And forms are used for footings about 1% of the time. And I'm sorry your engineer can calc out footings but hasn't drawn where the footing should stop and where the rebar should be placed to tie in your existing slab. I will stop, but could go on for many conflicting questions. Good luck on your project !
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Old 06-24-2012, 03:08 PM   #22
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Need advice for 2 footings


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A vibrator is typically used on industrial or commercial projects where significant voids must not occur. For a small footing such as you describe, there is no need for a vibrator, you can prevent voids by careful placement of the concrete and by moving a rebar up and down to eliminate the potential for voids. Since you already have a vibrator (or so I gather), there is nothing wrong with using it, you simply insert it into the concrete, run it for half a minute or so, move it to another location. Total time a few minutes.

Just for curiosity, this thread has mixed English and metric units. Where do you live that you would specify the strength of concrete in megapascals and the size of the footing in inches? And the beam in metric units?
Thanks for your input. I live in northern ontario in canada.

As for the mixed english, I guess thats how it goes here. We use feet and inches when building, but when you order steal beams its in mm and kg (WmmxKG), im not sure why. The concrete I have never dealt with myself but thats what the plans from the engineer has, 20 mpa.
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Old 06-24-2012, 03:16 PM   #23
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Need advice for 2 footings


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Originally Posted by CopperClad View Post
I apologize for not going about it in a way that suits your desires. 80% of your questions should be on the drawing. And forms are used for footings about 1% of the time. And I'm sorry your engineer can calc out footings but hasn't drawn where the footing should stop and where the rebar should be placed to tie in your existing slab. I will stop, but could go on for many conflicting questions. Good luck on your project !
I apologize for not going about it in a way that suits your desires.
Its not about suiting my desire, you didnt even try to answer my question.

80% of your questions should be on the drawing.
Your right, but the engineer tells me the strenght of the concrete and the size of the footing, he doesnt train me on how to do the job.

And I'm sorry your engineer can calc out footings but hasn't drawn where the footing should stop and where the rebar should be placed to tie in your existing slab.
He has drawn where to place the footing and the size of the footings, I did not ask anything about that. Why would i tie in a existing footing to a slab that isnt there, you didnt read properly. This is footings in the middle of the basement floor, there is nothing to tie in.

I will stop, but could go on for many conflicting questions.
Im not sure where my conflicting questions are. The last question i was asking was about vibrating concrete. Maybe you can answer me just that, i would appreciate that greatly.
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Old 06-24-2012, 03:23 PM   #24
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Need advice for 2 footings


Need advice for 2 footings

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Originally Posted by Canarywood1
Is there a concrete floor in your basement?

yes there is. I am, of course, removing it where i need to dig for the footings.
Footings go below concrete. Concrete floor needs to be tied together because it has been compromised....
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Old 06-24-2012, 03:27 PM   #25
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Need advice for 2 footings


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Originally Posted by CopperClad View Post
Need advice for 2 footings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Canarywood1
Is there a concrete floor in your basement?

yes there is. I am, of course, removing it where i need to dig for the footings.
Footings go below concrete. Concrete floor needs to be tied together because it has been compromised....
Im not sure I follow what your saying. If I missed anything im sorry. I got a few suggestion about what level i should put the footing. I talked to the engineer to see what is acceptable and he told me eitehr flush or bellow in our area.

I still dont see why you would need to tie the footing to the floor. Ive never seen that myself.

Around here we pour the footings, then pour the concrete floor. The floor does not need any tie in.
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Old 06-24-2012, 03:41 PM   #26
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Need advice for 2 footings


Yes. That is the way it should be done. But you cut the floor. Built forms under the concrete and are now pouring concrete in forms....... Nevermind. I'm not trying to be an arse. I am not here to insult your intelligence or your knowledge of construction. Please send a photo of your drawing and photo of what you've done and that way we all can better assist you.
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Old 06-24-2012, 04:47 PM   #27
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Need advice for 2 footings


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Originally Posted by simonb View Post
Hello Canarywood,

No I am getting the concrete delivered (30mpa). they will be delivering it to my home and unfortunately i will be bringing it to the basement with a few friends by pails.

How much time should I spend vibrating each footing? I would guess it should take about a minute?

Try not to pour it too wet, the stiffer the better,just so your able to work with it,pour the first 6 inches and viabrate about 5 seconds in one spot and move all around the form doing the same thing,pour the last 6 inches and repeat,strike off for a flat surface.


Forgot to say when you pour the second 6 inches,do not let the vibrator get into the first 6 inches you poured.

Last edited by Canarywood1; 06-24-2012 at 04:51 PM.
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Old 06-24-2012, 06:02 PM   #28
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Need advice for 2 footings


No vibrator. All you will do is vibrate the aggregate (stones) out of suspension, and weaken the upper third, or so, of your concrete... and even the lower two thirds if that area ends up mainly rocks.
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Old 06-24-2012, 06:11 PM   #29
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I don't follow why folks are getting so bent over this thread. There seems to be a perfectly good engineering plan for a footing. There is a plan for a steel beam. The engineer quite correctly did not specify means, methods, techniques or sequences of construction, that is NOT their job. They specified a minimum strength of concrete, a minimum footer size. Perhaps they could have specified the exact method of attaching the column to the floor, sometimes it is done, sometimes that is left to the detailer or the contractor.

The project seems pretty solid to me. There is absolutely no need to tie the slab into the footer, it accomplishes nothing, and is rarely done even in commercial construction. The slab simply is there to provide a flat walking surface it has not structural significance, while the footer supports the column. Due to the slight potential for differential movement between the slab and the footer, it is common practice in commerical installations to install a flexible joint between the column footer and the slab, however if you install the footer below the surface of the slab, then add the floor slab later to make a flat floor, you may want to install a slip surface over the footer (grease or similar) to minimize the potential for cracking the slab. In a basement installation, this is a minimum concern problem, more of an issue where the slab can get warm while the footer remains cold.

Good luck with the project.
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Old 06-24-2012, 06:38 PM   #30
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No vibrator. All you will do is vibrate the aggregate (stones) out of suspension, and weaken the upper third, or so, of your concrete... and even the lower two thirds if that area ends up mainly rocks.
Spoke to my engineer again this afternoon and he said the same. The size of it I can really screw it up fast using a vibrator. He said to poke at it with a stick to make sure it gets all over.

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Last edited by simonb; 06-24-2012 at 06:44 PM.
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