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Old 07-10-2013, 03:05 PM   #1
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Just noticed some damage to my driveway


Is this the beginning of concrete spalling? The driveway is only 1.5 years old. It seems like it should be holding up better. Should I be worried?










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Old 07-10-2013, 08:35 PM   #2
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Just noticed some damage to my driveway


It looks more like chert stone pops from the pics, but all the "chips" left in the control joint look suspicious of spalling. Unless all of the "chips" are gravel from somewhere else??

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Old 07-11-2013, 03:39 AM   #3
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Just noticed some damage to my driveway


why does the forum ask your location when you register ? BECAUSE IT HELPS RESPONDERS HELP YOU
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Old 07-11-2013, 09:25 AM   #4
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Just noticed some damage to my driveway


I live in Northern Utah.

I am already suspicious of the quality since there are many homes on my street with spalling issues. (Same builder).

I think the chips by the control joint are a result of there being a sidewalk next to dirt while they were building the home. The dirt being on the side where the control joint is.

Last edited by crumb; 07-11-2013 at 09:28 AM.
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Old 07-11-2013, 10:10 AM   #5
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Just noticed some damage to my driveway


If it is a common problem in the neighborhood, it is probably a common regional problem based on the available aggregate deposits.

If it is aggregate related (like chert, shale, etc.) there are solutions but they are costly since the processes to make the aggregate "perfect" are costly and the freight for aggregate shipped in is far beyond the cost of the normally acceptable aggregates for state and county work. Most major suppliers use the same aggregates for residential work as state or county work because of the fact that special processes, inventory, storage, timing and shipping make the use.

I have seen aggregate that cost $100/ton used in place of normally acceptable aggregate and the total cost of the concrete was many times the cost of state acceptable aggregates that may be more stringent than the national ASTM standards.

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Old 07-11-2013, 03:03 PM   #6
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Just noticed some damage to my driveway


I agree with jomama and Dick,sounds like the quarry may have run into a seam of chert,and it got by quality control, at any rate it should not ever be used in concrete.
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Old 07-12-2013, 07:59 AM   #7
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Just noticed some damage to my driveway


I'm so glad to live in the Pacific Northwest. Our rock is what they base the aggregate correction factor on. One less thing to worry about.
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Old 07-12-2013, 12:19 PM   #8
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Just noticed some damage to my driveway


Some more background on this driveway.
It was completed in the winter during a very cold spell. It was around freezing or below at night and close to it during the day. They placed burlap over the curing concrete to insulate it from the cold.

Would curing concrete in these conditions increase the chances of spalling?
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Old 07-12-2013, 01:28 PM   #9
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Just noticed some damage to my driveway


A very important thing with winter concrete is the temperature of the aggregate base and not the air temperature. If the concrete is at reasonable temperature (50F to 90F) that mass and temperature plus the heat of hydration from curing with a cover will keep the concrete warm enough to cure. In cold climates, they just use insulated mats.

Chert particles, if around, can be minor cosmetic problem if the concentration is not great. Around here we worry about the minor shale "pop-outs", but the good aggregate sources (glacial) are well known and the problem areas in a pit are no secret and controls keep the amounts within highway specs. - Just a quick look at the fine stone and a quick lick of the tongue tells you what it is. As state concrete inspector at plants, the first call was to the aggregate supplier, so they could adjust the operations and the next call was to the DOT lab, so they could look closer at the samples. Sometimes being a hard-nose is counter productive and just plain stupid.

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Old 07-12-2013, 05:25 PM   #10
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Just noticed some damage to my driveway


Quote:
Originally Posted by crumb View Post
Some more background on this driveway.
It was completed in the winter during a very cold spell. It was around freezing or below at night and close to it during the day. They placed burlap over the curing concrete to insulate it from the cold.

Would curing concrete in these conditions increase the chances of spalling?
That changes the whole picture, out door flat work never should have been poured under those conditions,as it cannot be protected from the elements,even with winter service and an acclerator it would be prone to freezing,concrete leaving the plant in wintertime is or should be 70 degrees, but there's no way to protect it, so this is what happens.

here's a link to scaling and spalling,and some reasons why it happens.

http://www.concreteconstruction.net/...r-scaling.aspx
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Old 08-14-2013, 12:56 PM   #11
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Just noticed some damage to my driveway


I just looked at the weather for the time the concrete was laid and it was about 50 degrees F for the high and 21 degrees F for the low during those days. Are those temps too extreme for good concrete curing?
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Old 08-14-2013, 09:57 PM   #12
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Just noticed some damage to my driveway


Quote:
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I just looked at the weather for the time the concrete was laid and it was about 50 degrees F for the high and 21 degrees F for the low during those days. Are those temps too extreme for good concrete curing?
Those Temperatures are perfectly acceptable for placing concrete as long as things are done correctly with the mix proportioning and with protecting the concrete after placement. Whether that was done or not it's only a matter of guesswork for us.

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