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Old 10-02-2013, 09:57 AM   #1
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Help w/Patio and 1/2 Wall Idea Needed


Attached are some pics for reference.

We have a concrete patio that is approximately 20'x20'. Standing at the house, and looking out onto the patio (as drawn in the picture), in the far right corner we would like to build a wood burning pizza oven, and surround the patio with a "1/2 wall". (a small wall about 2.5' high). We have a ton of reclaimed brick that we would like to build the exterior of the brick oven, cinder blocks and fire brick underneath that decorative skin. That same brick will cover the existing patio as pavers in a herringbone pattern.

The 1/2 wall would be framed, covered in plywood, lath, etc, then stucco'd over with some exposed brick faces to look like the wall was made of the brick, and stucco'd over, with the stucco peopling off (old Italian look).

My concern is twofold.

1st - If I surround the patio with a 1/2 wall, should I be concerned about it becoming a swimming pool when it rains? How would I deal with run-off water? My thought was to put some small grates at the bottom of the wall, allowing the water to run off form the patio, "into" the wall as it would be hollow allowing the water to drain from the patio to the soil.

2nd - My patio slab looks like it's 2 slabs. The first slab laid approximately 2" wider than the top slab (see pic). Thus, I can't build the wall directly next to the patio. My idea was to shoot a 2x2 or 2x4 on the patio all the way around, and build that side of the wall off that, and then the wall will be 18" wide, and the other side of the wall will be built down to the ground. (see pic 4). If I do it this way, should I be concerned about the wall being connected to the patio and the slab moving and damaging the wall?

Any help or input is much appreciated!







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Old 10-04-2013, 01:23 PM   #2
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Help w/Patio and 1/2 Wall Idea Needed


My first recommendation is "never use wood framing for an exposed exterior masonry wall". The wood is guaranteed to rot. If you have " a ton of reclaimed brick" make the wall solid masonry.

Second, most masonry, by its very nature, absorbs water. If you build a free standing wall where the top is exposed to the rain, water will soak into the brick. When the temperature drops below freezing, water soaked brick will spawl as the ice expands. Over time the brick will self destruct. (I noticed that there are conifer trees in your photo thus I assume you live in a climate that experienced freezing temperatures). The top of the masonry wall should have a waterproof "cap" to protect the masonry from water absorption. This can be in the form of a monolithic concrete cap slab or cut stone having a waterproof membrane underneath (like sheet lead, copper, PVC, or shower pan liner).

Third, don't use a wood nailer fastened to the slab as a foundation (see the first recommendation). Trench around the patio 16" deep and 12" wide +/-. Form and cast a concrete beam with at least one #3 rebar continuous top & bottom and dowel to the existing slab with #3 at 16" o.c. This will cover the step back and provide a permanent foundation for the masonry.

Fourth, drain rain water from the patio surface through the masonry wall with 2" diameter PVC pipes every 36" along the wall lengths. Cut the PVC pipe in half lengthwise and lay cut edge down at the patio surface level before laying masonry above. You will have a 2" wide half-circle drain that is even with the patio surface.

Fifth, you mentioned paving the patio surface with reclaimed brick. Be sure that your brick are solid "pavers" which are made for such application. Pavers are denser than standard brick, don't have core holes, and don't absorb water. See the spawling comment above. If your salvaged brick are "veneer type" they aren't suitable for walking surfaces, don't wear well, and will spawl in a wet freeze.

Check with someone local who has installed masonry walls for information assistance.

Rick
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Old 10-04-2013, 07:41 PM   #3
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Help w/Patio and 1/2 Wall Idea Needed


Thank you very much for the tips.

The reclaimed brick is "old Chicago brick". (I'm in the Chicago suburbs)

These bricks came off older city of Chicago homes, and are close to 100 years old. The 1st load of bricks came from a home's interior and exterior walls, and the 2nd load which looks identical to the first was a detached garages exterior walls. I would hope these would be ok for use outdoors still, or would they not be?
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Old 10-05-2013, 09:22 AM   #4
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Help w/Patio and 1/2 Wall Idea Needed


Typically, veneer masonry units (wall brick) don't work well as exposed pavers. The original installation and 100 year life of the veneer brick you salvaged was sheltered from water absorption by the roof eaves. They also were never exposed to foot traffic. It is unlikely that they will perform well as pavers. This doesn't mean that you couldn't get a few years use out of them as pavers, they just won't hold up in the long run. It seems a waste to spend so much time and energy using marginal materials.

The reason wall masonry units are less hearty is that they are made from lower grade clays and fired for shorter lengths of time. True pavers require special clays and must be fired longer. If you pick up a paver you can tell the difference in the weight. Also the surface is denser. I suggest that you take one of your salvaged bricks by a local masonry supplier and ask them about using it as a paver.

Rick

Last edited by Arkitexas; 10-16-2013 at 03:36 PM. Reason: added missing words
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