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Old 06-02-2013, 11:09 PM   #16
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Frost wall ?


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Originally Posted by GBrackins View Post
a frost wall is a foundation wall (either concrete or concrete block) where the footing would be set below your frost line. this would be in place of the pier footings. If installed on the 3 sides of your room this would provide an enclosed area below the floor. this would help to prevent wind from blowing under the floor helping to keep it warmer. if you go this route I'd recommend a vapor barrier below a concrete slab. this helps to control moisture issues. cut an opening from your basement into this space and it could be used for storage.

realize this is not full height since the slab is only about 48" below grade, you could always make this a full basement (taller concrete walls) to provide additional storage/usable space.

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Good luck!
Gary... I'm from snow country... and a frost wall is new to me.

If I'm understanding correctly, it's sorta a half height (freeze depth) basement.

What's it's benefit over a perimeter/stem wall foundation.?

Why have a concrete slab at it's bottom... eccept for possible storage.

And why is the OP inquiring as to flooring optiions in his sunroom, which I presume would be framed conventionally with plywood subfloor.

I'm really missing something here.

TIA


Peter

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Old 06-02-2013, 11:32 PM   #17
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Frost wall ?


In regards to your drain line- be sure it is upgraded to whatever is approved in your area. usually pipes within the footprint of the structure needs to be sch.40 DWV plastic. Outside the footprint pipes can be a lessor grade- and the tank, in my area, needs to be at least 10' away from the structure.
The pipe can go through the wall- no problem
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Old 06-02-2013, 11:48 PM   #18
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Frost wall ?


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Originally Posted by MTN REMODEL LLC View Post
Gary... I'm from snow country... and a frost wall is new to me.

If I'm understanding correctly, it's sorta a half height (freeze depth) basement.

What's it's benefit over a perimeter/stem wall foundation.?

Why have a concrete slab at it's bottom... eccept for possible storage.

And why is the OP inquiring as to flooring optiions in his sunroom, which I presume would be framed conventionally with plywood subfloor.

I'm really missing something here.

TIA


Peter
a frost wall has it's footing below the frost line, in the OP's case I'm guessing it's 48" the same as in Massachusetts. I think it's one of those local terms, like the use of sonotube foundation instead of pier foundation, as you can construct a round pier foundation without using sonotube brand products.

a full height wall in my area is about 8' (7'-9" to 7-10"). a frost wall in my area typically is about 4'- to 5' in height (depends on how high the top of foundation is above the adjacent grade).

the benefit would be less cost over a full height foundation wall especially when someone does not want or need more basement.

a concrete is usually placed to help prevent moisture issues as the enclosed space has to be accessible, either through a hatch in the floor, or an opening from their basement.

I thought they were asking about flooring options for the concrete slab, since they wouldn't have much headroom when using a frost wall they don't really have much of an option to be cost effective.

Now with that said I normally recommend to clients to go with a full height foundation wall unless their foundation is only a frost wall (4' depth of footing).

no I don't think you're missing anything, like I said it's more of a local term. I never heard of a frost wall until I moved to Massachusetts.
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Old 06-02-2013, 11:51 PM   #19
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Frost wall ?


[QUOTE=MTN REMODEL LLC;1193887]Gary... I'm from snow country... and a frost wall is new to me.

If I'm understanding correctly, it's sorta a half height (freeze depth) basement.

What's it's benefit over a perimeter/stem wall foundation.?

Why have a concrete slab at it's bottom... eccept for possible storage.

And why is the OP inquiring as to flooring optiions in his sunroom, which I presume would be framed conventionally with plywood subfloor.

I'm really missing something here.

The slab wouldn't be at the bottom. I was told the hole is filled with gravel first, so the slab comes out at the proper height(answering your next question about flooring).
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Old 06-03-2013, 12:14 AM   #20
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Frost wall ?


Quote:
Originally Posted by GBrackins View Post
a frost wall has it's footing below the frost line, in the OP's case I'm guessing it's 48" the same as in Massachusetts. I think it's one of those local terms, like the use of sonotube foundation instead of pier foundation, as you can construct a round pier foundation without using sonotube brand products.

a full height wall in my area is about 8' (7'-9" to 7-10"). a frost wall in my area typically is about 4'- to 5' in height (depends on how high the top of foundation is above the adjacent grade).

the benefit would be less cost over a full height foundation wall especially when someone does not want or need more basement.

a concrete is usually placed to help prevent moisture issues as the enclosed space has to be accessible, either through a hatch in the floor, or an opening from their basement.

I thought they were asking about flooring options for the concrete slab, since they wouldn't have much headroom when using a frost wall they don't really have much of an option to be cost effective.

Now with that said I normally recommend to clients to go with a full height foundation wall unless their foundation is only a frost wall (4' depth of footing).

no I don't think you're missing anything, like I said it's more of a local term. I never heard of a frost wall until I moved to Massachusetts.


Gary...What a great, informative, understandable response. Thank Ya

(You are correct... difference in terminology... didn't know it... but I've built a couple)

Best

Peter
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Old 06-03-2013, 09:07 AM   #21
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I apologize Jim, I didn't realize your room was going to have a concrete slab as floor, I was thinking it was going to be wood framed.
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Old 06-03-2013, 09:24 AM   #22
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Frost wall ?


For me, there's 3 kinds of general residential foundations common here:

- Full basement: 7-10' high typically, with soil on the outside and clear space on the interior.

- Crawlspace foundation: Typically 4' high walls with soil on the outside, and clear space on the interior.

- Frost wall/stem wall foundation: Typically 3'4" to 4' high, with balanced fill on both sides, no access to the interior side, and typically a concrete floor/cap/stoop on top. This style is the most common foundation for stoops/porches/attached garages in this area.....
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Old 06-03-2013, 09:27 AM   #23
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Thanks. Where are you located in Wisconsin? Do you see any problem building a 3 season porch(butting up against 2 right angle walls) with concrete pier footings? Using sonotubes 48" deep? Floor will be about 18" above grade.
I'm in Oz. County.

No real problem other than the insulation issues, if that even is an issue for you.....

Obviously, a frost wall foundation is a better long-term approach, but it's entirely your choice........
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Old 06-03-2013, 10:12 AM   #24
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In Co, we'll do it both ways, depending on site location primarily.

In the mountains, obviously we have signifigant elevation / slope on our footprints.

Pier/post is often done as our finish floor is 6-8-10- above grade... too much stem wall to form. Often floor joists are over spected just to provide greater insulation.

Obviously, a full spreadT footer/stem wall (frost basement at whatever height) provides a better insulation barrier, and a foundation adequet for two story. (Plus the potential for storage and depending on grading minus the possibility of water intrusion)

For a single story sunroom or 3 season room addition, it seems primarily a tradeoff of initial cost vs insulation quality costs down the road, assuming equal aesthetic considerations. We go 48 frost depth with footers or piers, and there is really not a structural issue as we are on decomposed granite in the mountains.
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Old 06-03-2013, 02:12 PM   #25
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I apologize Jim, I didn't realize your room was going to have a concrete slab as floor, I was thinking it was going to be wood framed.
Not necessary. I don't know if the floor will be concrete or not.
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Old 06-06-2013, 03:50 AM   #26
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I got my first quote today for a frost wall(one 10' wall, and one 19' wall), and a 10' X 19' slab. $4,156, plus $260 for 1" insulation, and $360 for 2" insulation. There's only 2 walls because the porch will butt up against 2 right angle walls. Is this price in the ballpark? I'm going to get a couple more quotes. Thanks.
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Old 06-06-2013, 09:18 AM   #27
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well you'll know more when you get in your other estimates
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Old 06-06-2013, 02:34 PM   #28
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well you'll know more when you get in your other estimates
Right. I assume I should go with the 2" insulation? What do most people do with the outside of the block wall to make it look better? It will be about 16" above grade.
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Old 06-06-2013, 03:17 PM   #29
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you could always setback your foundation so that you could apply the 2" rigid insulation and then run your sheathing down to grade. I'd use PT sheathing along the bottom, put on your building wrap and your exterior siding. tapcon the sheathing into the blocks.

somebody else might have a better idea as we do not use concrete block in my area for foundations (at least I haven't seen it done in many years).
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Old 06-16-2013, 03:42 AM   #30
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I talked to an architect who advised against using a frost wall and slab. He said the floor will always be cold(even with 2" insulation under slab and on the 2 frost walls). He suggests concrete pier footings and insulating the largest joists that will fit(floor is only about 16" above grade). Do you agree?

A carpenter/home builder that came out today, suggested a frost wall with a 2X6 treated sill on top, then "I-joists" sitting on the sill plate. He said the joists don't have to be treated lumber. I thought the joists had to be treated because they will be pretty close to grade? The floor height will only be about 16" above grade.


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