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-   -   Flowable self leveling concrete? (http://www.diychatroom.com/f105/flowable-self-leveling-concrete-166929/)

miamicuse 12-19-2012 07:53 PM

Flowable self leveling concrete?
 
Are there any flowable self leveling concrete products I can use to fill up irregular size narrow cavities in concrete walls?

I want to do a rectangular recessed hole in my concrete wall.

I have opened up a rectangular hole (rectangular in the front, but irregular in the sides and back due to the web and edges of hollow blocks.

Now, I have cut and framed a "box" using 1/2" cement boards. The cement board box is then pushed into this hole and I used shims on four sides to level and secure it in place (sort of). However there is space to the two sides, top and bottom, and back of it. these spaces are narrow, only 1/2" to 3/4" wide, around the perimeter.

My friend said once I have level and shimmed the box I should just spray some construction foam into these spaces and let it expand and it should be "rock solid".

I am thinking a better way is to use a few pieces of scrap wood to cover the cervices on the front side, and inject/pour some concrete into the space. If there is a product that flows and can self level, I can just pour it in and it should fill up all the irregular spaces around the sides and back right?

Is there such a concrete product I can use?

oh'mike 12-19-2012 08:19 PM

Grout is what you are describing----it is used to fill voids ---

Are you making a tiled niche ? If so--low expanding foam will do---blue can (window and door)

Then waterproof it well using a paint on waterproofing like Red Guard or Hydro Ban

SeniorSitizen 12-19-2012 09:02 PM

Quikrete has a grout product that may be of benefit in your application.

http://www.quikrete.com/productlines...isionGrout.asp

Canarywood1 12-20-2012 01:33 PM

+1 to what oh'mike said,depending on how much you need, bagged Quikcrete will work just fine also.

miamicuse 12-20-2012 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oh'mike (Post 1076355)
Grout is what you are describing----it is used to fill voids ---

Are you making a tiled niche ? If so--low expanding foam will do---blue can (window and door)

Then waterproof it well using a paint on waterproofing like Red Guard or Hydro Ban

Yes. But I wanted to fully secure the cement board box in the current cavity. I feel better if it's secured by grout instead of foam.

Once completed I will be using Schluter membrane over everything.

miamicuse 12-20-2012 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fairview (Post 1076410)
Quikrete has a grout product that may be of benefit in your application.

http://www.quikrete.com/productlines...isionGrout.asp

Will this product have enough flow properties to fill the cavities under, behind and to the sides without having to compress or stir mechanically?

I read the install guide and it says this:

A. Forms must be water tight, strong, properly braced, and properly coated.
B. Allow a minimum clearance of 2 inches (50 mm) between forms and baseplate for grout entry.
C. Allow a minimum grout head of 6 inches (150 mm).
D. Slope form on placing side to assist in grout movement and to prevent trapping air.
E. Allow 1 inch (25mm) horizontal clearance and 1 inch (25 mm) vertical clearance for height above bottom of baseplate.
F. Provide venting of forms to avoid entrapment of air.


I am planning to seal off all the edges from the front. Then open a cell on the concrete block directly above. Punch a hole on the bottom of that cell, then pour in the flowable grout. I am hoping the grout will flow to the cell below, and fill up all the empty spaces?

stadry 12-20-2012 04:55 PM

1st it began as a conc wall so where'd the block cavity come from ?

your directions are for horizontal placement ( grout plates ) so you'll have to make some changes,,, howzabout making a box smaller than your opening then use tapcons securing the box to the blocks,,, fill w/hydraulic & be done w/it OR, as previously suggested, use the foam-in-a-can

we install steel-reinforced grouted wall pins to strengthen foundation block walls that have moved ' IN ' from plumb however we use a manual grout pump,,, pouring it makes a mess & you lose about 25% of the mtl.

SeniorSitizen 12-20-2012 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miamicuse (Post 1076855)
Will this product have enough flow properties to fill the cavities under, behind and to the sides without having to compress or stir mechanically?

I read the install guide and it says this:

A. Forms must be water tight, strong, properly braced, and properly coated.
B. Allow a minimum clearance of 2 inches (50 mm) between forms and baseplate for grout entry.
C. Allow a minimum grout head of 6 inches (150 mm).
D. Slope form on placing side to assist in grout movement and to prevent trapping air.
E. Allow 1 inch (25mm) horizontal clearance and 1 inch (25 mm) vertical clearance for height above bottom of baseplate.
F. Provide venting of forms to avoid entrapment of air.


I am planning to seal off all the edges from the front. Then open a cell on the concrete block directly above. Punch a hole on the bottom of that cell, then pour in the flowable grout. I am hoping the grout will flow to the cell below, and fill up all the empty spaces?

Being A. in the instructions say forms must be water tight I would think it flows well.

I'm having a little trouble visualizing this project but I'm suspecting venting air may possibly be important since air has difficulty exiting through the same opening as being poured through. Common casting terminology - sprue hole and vent hole.

miamicuse 12-20-2012 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fairview (Post 1076910)
Being A. in the instructions say forms must be water tight I would think it flows well.

I'm having a little trouble visualizing this project but I'm suspecting venting air may possibly be important since air has difficulty exiting through the same opening as being poured through. Common casting terminology - sprue hole and vent hole.

I am reading the same, water tight probably implies it will seek out voids to spread into.

I know the description is hard to visualize. So let me try this.

Imagine you have a dresser with one single drawer. The drawer is in the closed position. I want to open a hole on top of the dresser and pour in this mix, and I am hoping the poured mix will fill in all the space inside the dresser, all the way around the top, bottom and sides of the drawer. :)

SeniorSitizen 12-20-2012 09:05 PM

Excellent description. If there is even a slight difference in elevation of the "dresser top" :thumbup: I would think a vent hole would be advantageous on the high end even if it was no more than a 1/4" hole and possibly even if the top is level.

miamicuse 12-26-2012 08:52 PM

I tried looking for the recommended Quikrete Non-Shrink Precision Grout at local home centers, no one carries it. But I found this.

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1...specifications

SAKRETE 50 lb. Non-Shrink Construction Grout



http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pro...70c78f_300.jpg

Here is the installation guide.
http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pdf...6d138b967e.pdf

Desired Grout Consistency:
Flowable (Pumping Consistency), 50 lbs. (22.7kg) Grout, approximately 1.1
Gallons Water (4.2 L)
Plastic (Trowel Consistency), 50 lbs. (22.7 kg) Grout, approximately 1.0 Gallon
Water (3.8 L)

Using the flowable consistency guideline, I mixed a small batch to test. I end up with something the consistency of honey. I poured that into a plastic flower pot with some debris in the bottom. However it did not self level, may be the surface tension or viscosity? It didn't seek the lowest level like pouring syrup on pancakes it sort of flow a little but did not fill in all the bottom cervices as I had hoped. Should I further dilute more than what's spece'd?

miamicuse 12-26-2012 09:08 PM

By the way, are there any tricks to make it easier to remove the forms after a concrete pour? Do you paint or coat the surface of wood form so it comes off easily when concrete is dry enough?

Canarywood1 12-26-2012 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miamicuse (Post 1080225)
I tried looking for the recommended Quikrete Non-Shrink Precision Grout at local home centers, no one carries it. But I found this.

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1...specifications

SAKRETE 50 lb. Non-Shrink Construction Grout



http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pro...70c78f_300.jpg

Here is the installation guide.
http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pdf...6d138b967e.pdf

Desired Grout Consistency:
Flowable (Pumping Consistency), 50 lbs. (22.7kg) Grout, approximately 1.1
Gallons Water (4.2 L)
Plastic (Trowel Consistency), 50 lbs. (22.7 kg) Grout, approximately 1.0 Gallon
Water (3.8 L)

Using the flowable consistency guideline, I mixed a small batch to test. I end up with something the consistency of honey. I poured that into a plastic flower pot with some debris in the bottom. However it did not self level, may be the surface tension or viscosity? It didn't seek the lowest level like pouring syrup on pancakes it sort of flow a little but did not fill in all the bottom cervices as I had hoped. Should I further dilute more than what's spece'd?


Yes add small amounts of water until you get it to flow like you want it too,just be sure you keep track of how much total water you use.

Canarywood1 12-26-2012 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miamicuse (Post 1080237)
By the way, are there any tricks to make it easier to remove the forms after a concrete pour? Do you paint or coat the surface of wood form so it comes off easily when concrete is dry enough?




Yes form oil is whats used,but i doubt you'll find any in small amounts,but you can use a 5 wt.motor oil or mineral oil would work also,just don't have it dripping wet with oil,probably need a couple coats.

Mort 12-26-2012 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miamicuse (Post 1080237)
By the way, are there any tricks to make it easier to remove the forms after a concrete pour? Do you paint or coat the surface of wood form so it comes off easily when concrete is dry enough?

Mop 'n' Glo also works pretty well.


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